using Round-up

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Araminta
Araminta's picture
using Round-up

I have a question about weed spraying. I just stopped my husband from spraying the drive with round- up. Does anyone know if it would poison the little birds that feed on them???

Wrens , Firetails and Parrots love them.

Please let me know what you think, we will have to run the ride on mower over the drive soon.

GregL
GregL's picture

Roundup when diluted for spraying is not very toxic at all. It quickly breaks down when it comes into contact with soil. Wrens mainly eat insects so they wouldn't be effected so much. The firetails and parrots eat seed so at this time of year there shouldn't be a problem, but don't spray when the grass has set seed. If your husband puts some dye in the spray he can use only as much as needed.

Woko
Woko's picture

I agree with Greg's comments, Araminta. I've found that it's always best to spray or mow weeds before the seed matures. That way you not only protect seed-eating birds but you also reduce the weed seed germination next season.
I've never seen birds taking Roundup spray from weeds. It probably wouldn't be palatable for them even if they were tempted. Nor have I noticed any affect on bird populations after I've used Roundup. Monsanto say that their Bio-Active Roundup is safe to use near water but if you have any old Roundup (manufactured before Bio-Active Roundup was introduced) I'd advise against spraying it anywhere near waterways in order to protect the aquatic wildlife & food supply for water birds.

Qyn
Qyn's picture

There have been studies recently where Roundup (Glyphosphate) was shown to be not as "non-residual" as thought with significant traces of it found in soils 12 months after use. There is also this article  which suggests some of the components in roundup are less safe than the active ingredient. I do use it in our garden (such that it is) but I am careful where I spray it and considering what might come into contact with it - in iffy situations I'll hand weed which is a safer option.  Most of the weeding I have done as part of friends groups has been hand weeding as targetting of the weed is more specific than weed killers are and we don't want to kill those plants we are trying to allow regenerate.

Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."

Araminta
Araminta's picture

Thanks everyone for your advice. I will think some more, and make a decision later.

Alison, hand weeding is not possible, it's a very long gravel drive.

M-L

mtck
mtck's picture

Hi Araminta,

I use Round-up around the garden edges, dog kennels and paths (gravel surfaces) but only when the weeds are in leaf stage and have not flowered nor seeded. If the weeds are at seeding stage, Round-up will not do much - it really should be used before flowering.

I'm with Woko - l'm sure that the birds know (smell it?) what is sprayed and what is not.

margaret
margaret's picture

I use Roundup on onion weed however someone recently said that turps is just as effective and to paint it on. What I find disturbing is that Monsanto was one of the companies that produced Agent Orange and the US " campaign destroyed 5 million acres (20,000 km2) of upland and mangrove forests and millions of acres of crops. Overall, more than 20% of South Vietnam's forests were sprayed at least once over a nine year period."[6][33

I am thinking I want to find a product from an ethical company.

PS Dow also manufactured Agent Orange and Napalm and continued to supply the US with these products after the others stopped production. Dow was a major sponsor of the Olympics, they bought you the Olympics and they have bought the Vietnamese people their 3rd generation of birth defects.

Qyn
Qyn's picture

When these products came out there was a wand like contraption that meant you could direct the Glyphosphate where you wanted a bit better than the spray - I don't know of that is available still - but that (or something similar) could be used to direct the weedkiller away from something a bird or other animal might consider food. Woko may be correct as far as the bird/animal knowing better but at least that is another option. Best wishes, M-L.

Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."

Araminta
Araminta's picture

Hi mtck, nice ro see you are still lookingsmiley.Hope you are well?

Margaret, thanks for that bit of information, shows how fast some horrible things are forgotten. I will take that in concideration.

M-L

cathshane

Salt is really good for getting rid of weeds, as well as boiling water. Both methods take a bit longer but it does kill the weeds and is not harmful.  I use to use it on a long gravel driveway we had and it worked wonders.

Qyn
Qyn's picture

cathshane wrote:

Salt is really good for getting rid of weeds, as well as boiling water. Both methods take a bit longer but it does kill the weeds and is not harmful.  I use to use it on a long gravel driveway we had and it worked wonders.

I have read that too but I worry about the effect of both the salt and especially the boiling water on creatures living in the soil - must be a horrible death for worms or the like. sad Maybe I'm too soft!

Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."

davidrobinson04
davidrobinson04's picture

Hullo everyone, my name is David, I am new.

I found this forum on the using Round-up interesting.

Glyphosate is one of the ‘safest to use’ herbicides available in comparison to other herbicides on the market but it is a non-selective herbicide which means it will affect any plant like organism and therefore affects any organism that feeds or lives on such. Perhaps directly or indirectly.

Generally a surfactant or penetrant is added to glyphosate, which will increase the volume of chemical to enter the plant, making the chemical more efficient. These surfactants are far more toxic to general organisms including people. ‘Ready to use, pre-mixed trigger packs’ will contain a surfactant of sorts. Without a surfactant less than a third of the glyphosate will be absorbed into the plant tissue.

A safer alternative is to add a little bio-degradable detergent to glyphosate this will change the water tension similar to a surfactant.

Marker dies are great when spraying less overlap but avoid dyes containing Rhodamine.

Also some weeds are resistant to glyphosate like fleabane.

I have used glyphosate for 3 years, spot spraying weeds but after seeing wetter seasons and regeneration, I know agree with Alison ‘gyn55’ and her methods of hand weeding and targeting problematic weed plants.

But in Arminta’s case the situation is different it is a driveway. Weeds will always grow in ‘upset’ soil situations they ‘the weeds’ are just making the best of a bad situation. Changing that situation may help, adding fresh soil or fertiliser perhaps using mulch, turf or planting hedges or native alternatives may reduce the weeds. As to the birds ‘god love em’ is there an area in your garden which you could ‘let go’ and actively encourage these weeds ‘grasses I assume’ to grow and set seed, slashing the area back sporadically if its gets out of control.

margaret
margaret's picture

hi David, thanks for your answer. When you say there is a surfactant in the trigger packs, does that mean the ones that need to be mixed don't have the surfactant? I am not keen on buying roundup because of Monsanto. Is there another brand I can use? Also I have heard that Monsanto is trying to patent seeds and then produce GM seeds which are supposedly resistant to pests. In some 3rd world countries where gm seeds are used, the pests have developed a resistance and the farmers are then obliged to use further pest control from monsanto.

GregL
GregL's picture

You don't have to buy from monsanto, their patent ran out long ago. You can buy much cheaper brands of glyphosate (the active ingredient) but look for the 360g/L concentration, it doesn't have the surfactant (which is mainly harmful to frogs).

dwatsonbb
dwatsonbb's picture

I use Ripper, cost @ $120 for 20 liters, need only to use about 50ml/100 liters. This brand is 420g/L. I usually am heavy handed (60-70ml) works very well on gravel drives, along fence boundaries. We spray twice a year, spring, with new growth, but before seed sets, and toward the end of summer ( we get some summer growth). I use a cheap 12volt powered 55L sprayer, which sits nicely in the trailer of the ride on. Much better than walking the outside of our 8 acre lot, with a backpack model.

Dale Huonville, Tasmania

GregL
GregL's picture

50mL/100L doesn't sound right, I think you mean 50mL/10L.

dwatsonbb
dwatsonbb's picture

Thanks Greg, my calculations are correct for the stock I purchase, many differing "formulas" are available at retailers. The concentrate we get is for agricultural use, orchards and so on. Manufacturer recommends between 1 liter and 2.25 liters per hectare(diluted according to the spray rate of each machine) depending on the target weed. I did mislead with the concentrate, on checking it is 480g/L and not 420. Most of the commercial herbicides sold at nurseries are already diluted to some extent, and therefore require larger ratio of product to water. We also use another product for control of woody plants like blackberry, and again only 160g of powder is used per hectare. Most producers a mixing in 2500-5000 liter sprayers, and covering very large areas. My calculations are based loosely on downsizing the batch that I mix. My mix kills weeds very well. Probably not worth most people buying a 20 liter drum, but is very cost effective compared to retail price of roundup.

Dale Huonville, Tasmania

GregL
GregL's picture

Here is a product site from monsanto. The minimum dilution for the 450g/L concentration is 6mL/L ie 600mL/100L. You got your dilution rate wrong by a factor of 10, at your rate a 20L drum would last many years. I also own a property and use glyphosate regularly, I use 200mL/15L of the 360 in my backpack sprayer,

http://www.monsanto-ag.co.uk/content.output/228/228/Roundup/Application%20Information/Sprayers%20and%20Water%20Volumes.mspx

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