Contributions of members?

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Araminta
Araminta's picture
Contributions of members?

I have not posted for some time. Only re-started a few days ago. But I do wonder about what is happening here? Almost 20 000 members, but only very few that contribute by posting photos , asking questions or answering questions.

Any idea why this is so? We used to have lively discussions , (from time to time I started a few heated ones),but right now very few members contribute .

Hmm, any thoughts? I have a few.

Cheers, M-L

Woko
Woko's picture

My impression is one of a largely rolling, contributing membership with a few stalwarts, Araminta. But I agree that there aren't the debates that used to occur. Perhaps we need your provocation again!!

It seems to me that most contributors prefer to find, photograph & identifiy rather than explore why birds behave the way they do, what habitat they require & how that habitat might be protected &/or restored. Where a bird sits in the greater scheme of things isn't something that most people seem to express an interest in.

There could be a myriad of reasons for this. E.g., from my observations

  • we live in a far more directed society now than used to be the case. People are encouraged to obey & do rather than explore why. We're trained rather than educated.
  • people are besotted with what their smart phones tell them. They accept what comes up on their screens without question. And they respond with dumbed-down language which doesn't allow for nuance
  • people are encouraged to Google for answers rather than rely on their own observation & interpretation skills so we've lost the power of arriving at our own answers. This gives enormous power to the media & other purveyors of conventional wisdom & means we no longer have the ability to form arguments for ourselves because we've relied for a long while on powerful others to do it for us

I'm interested in others' thoughts on this.

zosterops
zosterops's picture

i reckon other social media like facebook has killed off a lot of special interest-orientated forums in recent years. 

maybe we need more introduced species (feline) themed posts to stimulate polite discourse. 

Woko
Woko's picture

That might fire up a few members, zosterops. But why should introduced felines bear the burden?

Devster
Devster's picture

Zosterops & Woko I often see comments or read the links about news items you put through but I can't say I remember seeing any photos. Maybe you put them in the garden section as I don't really look there.

dwatsonbb
dwatsonbb's picture

BIBY is a place I come to relax, unwind and forget about other stuff. I don't have much time for photography, nor ability or skills. When I do have a good photo op, the camera is either at home or flat battery. Need to get better organised. I rarely post comments, as everyone else says exactly what I am thinking. I remain a member, as there seems to be an element of comradery among peole who have never met. It also appears there have been some good friendships made. For me the site is not about how many members there are or how often they post, but the way people present the bird in their little patch of the world for me to admire. Sometimes I feel we need to remind new members that we want to see "your best" photos, and it is not about who has the biggest or best gear. Perhaps some new members feel their photos are not good enough to post!

Dale Huonville, Tasmania

Rick N
Rick N's picture

dwatsonbb wrote:

BIBY is a place I come to relax, unwind and forget about other stuff. I don't have much time for photography, nor ability or skills. When I do have a good photo op, the camera is either at home or flat battery. Need to get better organised. I rarely post comments, as everyone else says exactly what I am thinking. I remain a member, as there seems to be an element of comradery among peole who have never met. It also appears there have been some good friendships made. For me the site is not about how many members there are or how often they post, but the way people present the bird in their little patch of the world for me to admire. Sometimes I feel we need to remind new members that we want to see "your best" photos, and it is not about who has the biggest or best gear. Perhaps some new members feel their photos are not good enough to post!

Very well put Dale. This is the last place I need for any provocative discussion, there's plenty to go around elsewhere.

Obviously I have and interest in bird photography but this is not the place to show off, and am very happy to

see all contributions, whatever the photo "quality"

I have learnt, and continue to learn about birds on this site, regardless of any photos.

It is a good mix here, people come and go but that is very much the way of it these days and

I hope the non competitive nature of the photo contributions (which attracted me in the first place) continues.

I suggest if anyone wants to argue on the internet, with associated lack of nuance and understanding,

they will not have to look far for the appropriate arena. :-)

Numbers don't matter, sense of birding community does. To me.

zosterops
zosterops's picture

Devster wrote:

Zosterops & Woko I often see comments or read the links about news items you put through but I can't say I remember seeing any photos. Maybe you put them in the garden section as I don't really look there.

i thought this was as its heart a bird forum not a photography forum.

i'm not a bird photographer and i'm more interested in the birds themselves, if that's okay. i usually don't carry a (decent) camera with me in the field and the only time i usually photograph birds is for record shots/identifications. 

i do enjoy seeing the photos posted on the site, but it still doesn't match seeing the real deal. 

GregL
GregL's picture

The reality is the internet is being dominated by images and video. Those of us who are happy with text and discussion are the dinosaurs of the internet age. I am happy to see things and remember them, I don't need a photographic rendering of my experiences. We all know the experience of seeing tourists who only see the world through their camera lens. They have a good record for the future but are missing out on the present.

Woko
Woko's picture

A diversity of views expressed with respect, I see. A great model for our national leaders I would have thought. Keep it up, folks, we may yet change Australia for the better.

rawshorty
rawshorty's picture

I have been a member of a photographic forum for many years, they have over 380,000 members and the amount of contributors would be in comparision to this site ( members vs posts ), it is just the nature of forums. People join to find out something and then continue on with their life.

I used to go around taking photos of just about anything, but nearly 3 years ago i decieded to take some shots of the little birds around my yard. I only had a short lens (200mm) and could not notice what they looked like until i loaded them on my pc. Well i have to say after seeing so many different birds in my photos my interest in birds grew enormously, so i started to search on the web to find out what my birds were and found this site. In the beginning i was a very active member as i was trying to learn about the birds and recieved a lot of help from the members here, and for this i thank you.

These days i know a lot more about birds ( and a lot to learn still ) so don't need to ask as many questions anymore. I also spend more time out in the field and this takes away available time to be on forums.

My opinion is that photos, no matter the quality are important to get non birders interested. I have found that if you just describe a bird to someone you get a "sounds nice" type of responce, but if you show them a photo of a very colourful bird the responce is much greater and instills an immediate interest. I remember last year when Devster and Reflex were posting pics of birds at Mount Glorious my interest to go there was instant and i took a week off work and went there, without seeing the pics i would most lickely not have gone.

The problem i think with the Best Photos section is the title implying they need to be good, perhaps it needs to be changed to "Your photos" with a description such as, Post your photos of birds regardless of quality, we just want to see your bird shots.

As for heated discussions, i have been in a few and they never end well so i would not encourage such discussions.

Shorty......Canon gear

Canberra

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/ 

Devster
Devster's picture

Firsty Zosterops I meant no disrespect to you or to Woko, it was merely an observation. I have the utmost admiration for your bird and plant knowledge and so do many other people on this forum, so I appologise if I offended you.

Well put Shorty. I love seeing photos of birds (or any wildlife) from different parts of Australia and the photos on here show me whats around in different states. I do like Aramintas photos of her birds in her yard (although it makes me extremely jealous) and I used to love seeing Annies photos from Tasmania.

I always look forward to Mondays postings to see what people managed to get on the weekend and I also love looking at the Identifications section and seeing if I can ID them correctly before I see the answers. Even though I don't have the confidence to say too much myself, this site has helped me with my bird knowledge and I have other sites that help me with my photography. When people are getting into birds I always tell them about this site if they are interested in bird knowledge or bird friendly gardening and other sites for improvement on their photography. 

To finish up, I was a member for quite a number of years before I had the confidence to post some photos or even comment as my knowledge was limited. I even used this site to try and teach some Boys Brigade kids how to identify birds in their area. This site has a lot to offer and only by friendly, encouraging and positivel discussions will people feel confident to comment or post pictures. 

I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend and I look forward as always to your photos on Monday, no matter the quality!

Araminta
Araminta's picture

I think Shorty makes a good point by saying:  <My opinion is that photos, no matter the quality are important to get non birders interested.>

but I also have to say, since I have not posted any photos for a while, the standard of the posted photos is so high, that it might be intimidating. The display of photos is also outstanding compared to some of the groups on FB. I have posted the same photo on BIBY and on FB, and there is a huge difference. To the point that sometimes I think one of my photos is not sharp, but on here it looks quite different.

Also want to say, by heated discussions , (probabely wrong wording), I meant more lively discussions.

Thanks to all of  you who have answered my question so far.

M-L

pacman
pacman's picture

time is my enemy and most likely explains my reduced contribution

I seem to have gone back to being a lurker except for 'Identifications' as I like this section

I have little interest in a 'lively' discussion as clearly if you don't agree with me than you are wrong and after I have told you once I am not inclined to repeat myself (where have the smileys gone?)

Peter

HelloBirdy
HelloBirdy's picture

Also, maybe the member count includes all those who have an BIBY account for the backyard bird survey... Just a thought. Interesting discussion, so valid points have been raised

Ryu
Canberra
Aiming for DSLR-quality shots with a bridge camera

Woko
Woko's picture

Rest assured, no offence taken, Devster. I have posted photos occasionally but this time of year with bushfire prevention in full swing isn't a good time for me to be out shooting shots.

jason

Hard to say really isn't it.  What are the numbers.  Visitor rates, member log in rates, most popular sections/threads visited, stay times.  

This is not a reason, but adds to the contributing experiance, a spell checker.   

I'm no facebook user, but my vanity and the use of a like button on the bottom of posts encourages me to contribute when I can in a helpful way. Everyone likes to be popular and recognised if they have contributed positively.  I know people from older genrations will pehaps view it as being pathetic; but we have built an "i" world that people expect nowdays to be the centre of.

Also, if you don't know, you don't know.  So why contribute.  I also think you have to be interested.  We have so much available to us in modern life, it's hard to reckonise what truely takes your interest.  So lots of skimming, but little depth in knowledge, makes it hard to contribute.    

What are you thoughts Araminta.

Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks

Araminta
Araminta's picture

Thanks Jason, you are expressing exactly what my thoughts are. I don't think it has much to do with the "I" generation, I'm ne of the older generation.And it's not the "being popular" either. But everyone wants to know, if their photos are appreciated.

Yes, you want to know if your contributions are appreciated, and therefore you need some feedback. Otherwise it's just like talking to a brick wall, or a partner that doesn't answer.

M-L

jason

Its all good and I don't have an issue, but have noticed there has been a bit of discussion in this thread about photos.  And also noticed many of the photographers are not here commenting. Point of the thread.  But not sure if its all about images as well. I joined to work out a better garden to attract birds to the yard. Little interest in photographing birds, or counting what I have seen, or good spots to find them. Just saying. 

Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks

Rick N
Rick N's picture

I post my photos here simply to share them. If people like them that's fine, if they don't then it doesn't really matter to me.

I am able to get to some more remote areas and hopefully show some of the birds that inhabit these less seen areas in their natural setting.As Shorty mentions, if that spurs interest to maybe visit the area shown then that is a good thing to me.

There are plenty of bird photography websites that will offer critique but be prepared to take the good with the bad

if that is the road chosen.

I hope this site does not turn into any sort of photographic contest area as I believe that would detract significantly

from at least my enjoyment of the site.

As for "lively" discussion, again not interested.

Araminta
Araminta's picture

Well Jason, we used to comment a lot more on each other's photos. I have been a member for more than 5 years, posting every day.

Just posting photos and not commenting doesn't sit well with me. Some feedback is good.

I also noticed that there are a few people posting, and most of the photos are fantastic photography. That could be one of the reasons that not that many members post their own photos. It's kind of intimmidating, and if new and young members are not encouraged, even if they don't have expensive cameras and long lenses, they will stay away.

Anyway, was just trying to get a few thoughts on this.

Yes, there are plenty of very friendly bird sites around. I'm a member of one. (I think a few others on here are too)

M-L

jason

Oops, I have misread the OP.  I thought ideas about the forum in general were being sought, not more so for photography.  I recall thinking last time I looked at some of the pics on here, there is no need for museums to have stuffed birds.  The photos are so clear and detailed that is all you really need to get a good look at it.  There are some amazing photraphers on here.

In regards to the spell check, it pains me there is not one, but it's also good for me.  

Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks

zosterops
zosterops's picture

i quite enjoy your literary expression and occasionally creative spellings for one, jason. :) 

jason

Gee zosterops, I was no star a school I can tell you.  If you come with me its like an emotional journey on a leaf floating around the ocean. Still I manage to have fun and hold down a job.

Back to topic, it could be a natural lull period.  They seem to happen.  Older memebers get busy, get tired of answering the same Q's, or just need a change. Eventually new people arrive and it picks up again.  I find I usually end up adding a comment that involves an experiance I have had, means little but more than conversation, and a hopeful smile, or yeh I know what you mean to the other person. Being green to much of this, that is about all I have. Otherwise I don't post.  

Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks

Shirley Hardy
Shirley Hardy's picture

Hi Araminta. I've found that websites in general are NOT "the real world". People join websites for various reasons, but it is mostly to learn something that interests the person at the time. When someone takes an interest in something it remains until that interest has passed. They then move on to another interest or focus on something else. Its called human nature. And life can get in the way of our interests; circumstances can change to prevent people from taking further interest in a subject; and so too can bad experiences with people.

I used to be an active member of this site until I had a fallout with one other member. I'm not about to start that up again I can tell you. The thing is, life is like people. It is so variable and unique and not everyone is experiencing the same thing. We are all different and we all have different values and beliefs. Sometimes we clash, other times we becomes friends. 

To the other side of things to this site, even I am intimidated by the high quality photos uploaded to this site. You take awesome photographs Araminta, so do many other people here. Honestly, I believe, you Araminta are wasting your talent on this site with your photographic skills. You should be a paid wildlife photographer!!!! I finally said it.

Everyone is different, and not everyone wants to use a camera, some don't know how to use their camera's settings properly to take professional looking photos like you can. (Like me for example.) I am so anti-technology its not funny. I'll use it (technology, that is) only if I have to or forced into using it or it suits a purpose and interest for me, otherwise you'll see me doing more hands on stuff at home and in the garden.

Adding photos to this site is a whole different kettle of fish though, for me anyway. I can't speak for every member but I don't have even a decent camera anymore. Even if I wanted to upload photos to this site it is a rare occurrance now. I have to resort to using another family member's phone or camera to do that. The camera I do have won't stay permanently set on the settings I set it on. I absolutely hate digital cameras and pixels really peeve me on big time. I'm short tempered with my camera, very short tempered.

I also think there's a privacy issue people are concerned about on this site too. I've noticed people in general don't really want their location and area fully revealed to the world. Not everyone is like this, and there's a lot of variables to this as well. 

Our human world has turned into an uncaring world. People have lost their soul to the internet and to technology. And then there's the people who struggle or don't allow technology to rule their world. The interest in the world around us can barely be focused upon anymore with all the noise, electrocomagnetic fields created by human technologies, etc. If nature comes to us we complain about it because its in our way of our interests and focus. We humans have lost ourselves, are told what to do and how to think. As a result we simply don't care anymore. Its our way of giving up. In a brief moment a member may become active; there is light in their soul for what is just and good. We are a confused and suppressed species, Araminta. If you want to know why people are not being active on this site, then simply ask yourself why you, yourself, stopped being active then became active again. Then you might find part of the answer to your question. 

Everyone who has commented thus far to your question all have valid points and are all correct. We are all different, us humans, so your answer will be as variable as everyone's answers. Just combine it all to get the bigger picture.

I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)

Araminta
Araminta's picture

Thanks so much for your lovely compliment Hyperbirds  (? who ever you are?)

I sent you a PM, hope you read it.

M-L

Reflex
Reflex's picture

I log on here at least once a day even if it's on my phone for a few minutes, one of only two sites that I visit regularly. 

I have always been interested in birds as far back as I can remember and photography only really serious for the last couple of years but they do make a very addictive cocktail!!

I used to be a member of another forum which was closed down, nothing to do with birds or photography but it used to suffer from quiet periods as well so I think that is all part and parcel of forums in general.

There's a good mixture of people on here in my opinion and I can honestly say I have gained a lot from being on here both in photographic terms and aspects of bird watching. It's also good to read about places where people go to see and photograph birds. Rick N and Rawshorty seem to always be just returning from somewhere interesting.

 Zosterops your ability to identify birds never ceases to amaze me!

Samford Valley Qld.

Shirley Hardy
Shirley Hardy's picture

Thanks, Araminta, for your comment and the pm. Just checked my pm's and replied to yours. Just thought I'd come out of the woodwork too and use my real name as my username. Its about time I did anyway. (formerly known as Hyperbirds)

So, Araminta, when are we going to see pics of birds/the forest/areas outside your backyard or do you live on the edge of the Earth or is it filled with magical, mythical creatures like unicorns or something where you're forbidden to venture into because you might get kidnapped by elves? HA HA HA, just kidding. Do you have some of them already posted here on this site?

All that I will say, out loud so everyone can read it, is in order to understand the folks here its far better to try and understand them as an individual person and what they've gone through and are going through in life. When in doubt just ask them directly.

Which brings me to my question......why do people stay and contribute to a website for years and years and years? Habit? Or are folk we too stuck in our ways to change anything - like when in a relationship? Hmm, makes me wonder.

This really is an interesting thread, Araminta.

I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)

jason

why do people stay and contribute to a website for years?

For me Shirley is purely based on fun and info to fule my interest.  If the interest wains than so does participation.  Sometime life gets busy and participation slows, but usually it's not long before I find a way to fuel the interest again. It's also about finding home.  If it feels right and people are your type, if the site is slow you can deal with it.  I also prefer a smaller group of quality, the info and images are very good on this site which I like.  Actually I feel a bit out of my depth around here, but we all need an anchor lol.  I have been a participant of very large forums, and though helpful in many ways there is a lot of noise, trauling, and usually only a handful of regular contributers anyway which you do or don't get along with.      

I will also add, the odd debate is also OK.  Though it seems like a pain at the time, you often learn a bit and get an understanding which you never would have come to on your own.  

Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks

Wollemi
Wollemi's picture

I am one those people that fades in and out of the website, I more commonly use the bird finder when I am trying to identify a bird in my yard and cant find it in my guides. As for the forums I tend to get involved, then fade out as life takes over and then make myself come back to this because of how much I enjoy learning from everyone and seeing the many beautiful photos and reading the informative, clever, funny, and educational comments that are posted.

The world would be a sadder place if this website disappeared!

The forums contribute to my life in the following ways:

adding a sense of community, feeling a part of a group

learning about birds in all parts of Australia,

learning about bird attracting plants in all parts of Australia,

learning about photography,

it is one of my 'happy places' to visit that always gives me a smile, new ideas, and beautiful birds to look at.

I will most likely remain a member forever, and my habit of popping in for a few hours, days or weeks and then vanishing again will most likely continue.

 and   @birdsinbackyards
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