Camera

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Anonymous
Camera

Just wondering with an SLR about how far out can you get a good shot with as in no pixelations. I've been searching but have founf no references to it but am just curious. And also wondering, what makes a 10.1mp DSLR so much better then a 10mp digital camera. Hopefully someone can answer these, planning on getting a DSLR soon, probably in June. Thanks.

birdie
birdie's picture

Hi Amateur

Don't think there is anything in the 10.1 MP as opposed to 10mp, probably just the way they work it out, sometimes they do it slightly differently, or express it a bit differently.
With regard to the pixelation, it depends on the clarity of the original pic to start with. it is not a good idea with smaller cameras to go past the optical zoom measurement usually. Once you are using a digital zoom you are largely relying on the enhancing of the pixels to give you closer images, and usually it breaks up fairly quickly after say 3X optical on a smaller camera. With a DSLR you have a different scenario as you have an optical zoom doing a lot of the work for you. For instance with my 75-300m lens, I can get fairly good shots from say from 10 to 40 meters away, depending on how much of the frame I want to fill. I usually try to get as sharp a shot as I can and then rely on cropping it to get in to a better framed subject and bring in closer. I was out with Hev the other day and she has a 150-500 lens. So the shots she took will be a lot more up close and personal than I was able to get. It all really depends on how much magnification you want to do. The better quality the lens, the better the image, but first you have to learn to hold it really still and get your light right. Otherwise a 20mp camera won't help you! Don't believe all the TV shows that show police enhancing images and reading the writing in the newspaper a guy was looking at 500 meters away!! :)
So the bottom line is that you need a fair MP rating to give you the info storage detail in the shot, but after that you need a good long lens for anything small (ie bird size)that is more than 20 odd meters away from you.
Hope this is helpful

Cheers

Birdie

Sunshine Coast Queensland

bushanwater
bushanwater's picture

As far as how much magnification you can expect from a DSLR goes I suggest you try one in a camera shop. Ask the sales peson to let you look through one at something about the distance you think would be appropriate for your bird photography.
As for the MP question. DSLR almost always have a bigger sensor than a compact so a 10mp DSLR will produce a better quality shot than a 10mp compact if your doing enlargements. There are differeent sizes in the sensors in DSLRs as well. Full size sensors are the same size as 35mm film(35mm long) where as my camera (canon 1000d) and the other cameras that DON'T cost a few thousand dollars are about 22mm long. This effects the quality as well BUT. unless you are doing large enlargements you will never need that quality.
My camera is quite simply capable of easily producing images good enough for books and magazines as well as enlargement good enough to sell to other people as pictures for their wall.
The big advantage DSLRs have is that you can buy telephoto lenses to get better magnification and equally as important you can (after you learn a bit) have a lot more control over what the camera does.
Best advise, join a photography club and ask advise from people who are doing what you want to be able to do.

See Yez
Trev

bushanwater
bushanwater's picture

Forgot to add. Don't fall for the "you need the best". line. But don't buy rubbish. That's why you need advise from other photographers. That and because they can teach you an enormous amount.

See Yez
Trev

Amateur

Don't worry, I don't plan on getting my images turned into a massive picture or put in a magazine. And I don't plan on getting a thousand dollar one, not really in my current financial capacity living off refereeing payments :) I plan on getting probably an '08 or '07 model, the cheapest new one I can find is going at about 1 grand... If I could produce some stunning images like you Trev then I'd be over the moon. I'll probably get it near the end of the financial year and hope for some sales. Thanks for the advice you 2, it's been a great help. Thanks.

Windhover
Windhover's picture

Hi Amateur

A DSLR will give you much better image quality as explained due to sensor size, pixel pitch and internal processing capability. You will NOT GET ANY shutter lag at all, which is crucial when timing shots to capture that essential moment. You will have full manual control of all parameters and once you get your head around photographic basics such as light, exposure, reciprocity etc that is when you will truly appreciate the control you CAN have with a DSLR.

You don't need THE best, but you ought to buy the best you CAN afford. Lenses being far more important than camera bodies, generally speaking. Although as bodies are aimed at different folks, so do change their features, build quality, durability and processing capability. I'll give you an example. Since I use Canon, I am fairly conversed with their range. They have essentially three levels of bodies.

1 - the xxxxD and xxxD range (eg, 1000D, 500D and so on) that are aimed at total beginners I guess, who want a cheap body to get into photography. These are good bodies, but will have minimal features for control. They have buttons on the back that make it harder to control settings QUICKLY if you want to change. Better models have a wheel! The wheel gives you SUPER fast control of settings. These low-end models also have an APS-C sensor that is 22mm x 15mm as opposed to full frame (based on film principles) of 36mm x 24mm. This is good though as the smaller sensor gives you an apparently bigger image when the same lens is used as on a body that has a full frame sensor of 36mm x 24mm. This is also called a crop factor and in this instance it is 1.6x meaning that if you put a 100mm lens on the camera, the apparent crop size will be equal to as if you had used a lens of a focal length of 160mm. (100mm x 1.6). However, the FOV crop (field of view crop) is just a crop and not a true magnification as a particular lens will only magnify as much as its focal length allows. This is a great thing for wildlife shooters, but not so great for landscapers and people using wider lenses as the same principle applies, so wide lenses become technically not so wide anymore.

See a 550D here
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS550D/

2 - the xxD and the 7D. This is the mid-range series aimed at serious amateurs and semi professionals. Also, many pros may use this range for back-up bodies for their work. These cameras still have the APS-C sensors but internal image processing, control layout, build quality and features are beefed up in comparison to the xxxxD/xxxD range. These feel like REAL cameras in the hand. All except the 7D have two numbers in the name. why 7D, I cannot tell you. It is a great camera as it can shoot 8 frames per second (for about two seconds) as opposed to the current 50D that can do 6.3fps for about two seconds (I think). This is good if you shoot action as you can fit a lot of frames into a one second take. In comparison, the xxxxD/xxxD range can only shoot about 3fps. So that's a big plus already at times.

3 - the xD range, 1D, 1Ds, 5D. Basically there are two genres covered here. The 1D is the action shooter's best friend. It is an APS-H sensor giving only 1.3x crop factor, so a nice balance betweek full frame and APS-C, and can shoot 10fps for 3 seconds. Perfect for sports, fast wildlife action etc, also has superb noise control over the less pro models in the two ranges below. The 1Ds and 5D are full frame cameras aimed at landscapes, studio and advertising work I suppose. The full frame 1Ds MkIII is now at 21 megapixels and darn it if anybody would want more! :) The 1D and 1Ds are also fully weather sealed so you can photograph in the rain and have the camera stay dry inside as there are over 70 sealing gaskets around the body and the buttons. Both 1D and 1Ds also have built-in vertical grips making portrait orientation image taking a breeze.

Lenses, buy the best you can afford. I'd rather a good quality telephoto lens with a x

birdie
birdie's picture

This is all good advice Amateur. Like the rest of us you will probably in the end have to go with the bottom of the range of DSLR such as my 1000D ( likewise with Tassie) if that is all your budget allows. The better bodies are great as Akos says, for user convenience and extra speed etc. You can see by his photos that the results are fairly obvious. The most pertinent comment in my opinion is that the lens is everything. So get the very best you can afford and look to changing your lens when you can, staying within a compatible system so that if and when you are able to upgrade the body you can do so. You can get a twin lens 1000D kit for as little as $879 approx if you shop around. this gives you the basic 18-55 ( a very unimpressive lens for anything but snaps of people)and a 75-300. ( which in my opinion is likewise unimpressive, but is all I have to work with)In fact I have two of the darn things and I would love to upgrade but it just is too expensive for what I would want. There is a 2nd series of lenses called the "L" series that will give you the best results because of their coatings and superior glass etc but they are very costly. With the magnification factor from the sensor size, the 75 - 300 gives you the equivalent of about 480ml in 35mm camera terms. Start there and save hard!! :'D Also once you get it, practise, practise, practise!!In my work for Canon years ago, I saw many would be photographers who had the best of equipment but couldn't compose a shot to save themselves!!

good luck and keep saving!
Cheers

Birdie

Sunshine Coast Queensland

MATTY77
MATTY77's picture

I have a panasonic lumix fz35 with 18x optical zoom and 12 megapixel, it has plenty of manual modes not unlike a slr camera, and for an amateur like myself its perfect and for half the cost... this shot was taken with this camera there are other examples on my flickr page.

sparrow
sparrow's picture

Hi, you can go all technical for hours but it still comes down to "you get what you pay for "some high end compacts like the lumix fz range give outstanding results even at long end of there range be cause of there great lenses.
If you want to know more about cameras and how get the most out of what you have try
kenrockwell.com

sparrow
sparrow's picture

[IMG]http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b467/futura123
/whiteplumedhoneyeater1a.jpg[/IMG]
this is straight out of my wifes petax k100 and pentax 70-200 lens

sparrow
sparrow's picture
sparrow
sparrow's picture

birdie
birdie's picture

That is a beautifully taken shot. As you say, the Lumix range are a great range. I am going to get one for my daughter because of their lenses.
Most compact cameras have certain limitations though when it comes to birds, as you can't see what you are going to get always.
The reason I like the EOS 1000D is because it can be as technical or as auto as you need or want it to be , making it a great learning camera. Plus... it is all I can afford and that is the most pertinent point.

Sunshine Coast Queensland

sparrow
sparrow's picture

thats why i posted Maggies photo at the time the pentax was all she could afford $700 with lens.she has been banned from any more shoots for making the guys with the top end kits look bad.Ha Ha

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