The Crow, Wurundjeri People call it Waa

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Araminta
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The Crow, Wurundjeri People call it Waa

In the Dreamtime, according to the story told by the Wurundjeri People, the Crow (Waa) was one of two ancestral beings, and the Crow was "bringing fire to mankind"

The other ancestral being was the Eaglehawk Bunjil.

My friend an aboriginal Elder, although his ancestral being is the Wedge-tailed Eagle,regards the Crow as the most intelligent bird. Unfortunately today Crows do not enjoy the  same recognition amongst non indigenous people.

I took some photos of this very intersting, mythical bird.

I have now re-posted this from General over here, because of the impotance of Dreamtime stories ,and the importance of birds. In my view it would be great, if we would pay more attention to the respect of Country and flora and fauna the indigenous people of this country had for thousands of years.

So if you have any stories about birds, I'm intersested.   

Araminta
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And some more

M-L

Araminta
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Sorry I posted that many photos, sometimes there are problems with the posting, (I don't know if others have noticed this), so when I reposted I put up different photos, but now they're all there. Hope you don't mind, just enjoy! 

M-L

Night Parrot
Night Parrot's picture

Yes they are very smart birds. When they are on the road they seem to know the exact second to move out of the path of an oncoming car. I have never seen one hit. Now tell me if this is true. In Australia there are a few different types of crows and ravens. And the way to distinguish between a crow and a raven is "in the hand". The bases of a crow's feathers are white whereas the bases of a raven's feathers are grey. Also I have heard that ravens are the one with the descending "caw". And did anyone read the Australian short story "Corvidae"? One that I always remember.

Araminta
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I had a feeling this would come up. I've been reading about Crows and Ravens, my head is spinning. The CSIRO research says, there are 5 different species of Crows and Ravens in Australia. (the ones in my photos might be little Ravens?) I'm waiting for the experts to tell us all!

M-L

JessMess
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Corvidae have been proven to have the same level of intelligence as chimps. They're extremely clever birds. I was told by an Aboriginal that they can project images to one another and remember faces.

E.g If a crow sees you and finds you a threat they will project that image to a crow metres away. They will also remember your face and remember to avoid you, or not to if you weren't seen as a threat.

Correa
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I like the crows/ravens ? Yes, how do you tell the difference? A bit hard to check their feathers.  They seem maligned but I admire them and love their sorrowful calls.  Thanks Araminta.

Araminta
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Hi Correa, I just asked a guy who knows a bit about them, he said to me, down here in the southern part of Australia, we don't have any Crows, you only find them up north. He said around Melbourne they are all" Little Ravens". Have a look in your books, I think he's right. I wish someone would explain it to me. 

M-L

Correa
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I agree Araminta, I had read there are only Ravens here in Vic.  I told a teacher that once, but he didn't believe me, and I still heard him calling them crows to the children within minutes. 

Woko
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The bills on those birds are very robust, Araminta, which, I suspect, makes them forest ravens. I'm unaware of ever having seen a forest raven, the largest raven, which the maps show is distributed in southern Victoria, south eastern SA & Tasmania.

Both Morcombe's maps & Pizzey's parchments have southern Victoria as part of the ranges of the little raven & Australian raven. The little raven is slightly smaller than the Australian raven but the most distinguishing feature is the Australian raven's call which is much higher & more drawn out, particularly the last note. It's more sorrowful (to our ears), as Correa put it. Another distinguishing feature are the throat hackles on the Australian raven but these are best seen when the bird is perched & calling.

Notwithstanding the maps, my experience is that the Australian raven tends to inhabit the drier interior more so than the little raven. I've only once heard (& never seen) an Australian raven where I live. We're almost exclusively little raven country.

The little crow is a bird of the interior & is the smallest Australian corvid. I liked to think I could distinguish its call from that of the little raven but I was never 100% certain.

The Torresian crow, which I'm also unaware of having seen, is a bird of the tropics, sub tropics & the interior.

Morcombe's notes on the distinguishing features of these species are quite instructive.

Araminta
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Thanks a lot Correa and Woko, I will have a good look at the ????, when I go to "Dan Murphy's" next time I buy some grog. We now call them the "Dan Ravens" LOL

In the mean time I will try to understand what Woko said. That might take some time.

M-L

Woko
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I like to ensure you have something to occupy your day, Araminta.

timmo
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This is one I always have trouble with too - identifying the local "big noisy black birds".

I tend to assume (incorrectly, I'm sure) that they are all Torresian Crows, though Australian Ravens are just as common here according to the maps.

Cheers
Tim
Brisbane

Araminta
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Hmmm, Tim. More questions than answers . To confuse us all even more, they were rather small (as far as Ravens go,  LOL), but I think they had throat hackles. Have a look at yet one more photo, zoomed in on the hackles. 

M-L

timmo
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Sorry, I meant my assumptions were in relation to my local crows, and perhaps not too far wrong...

From a link on the news page here (http://theconversation.edu.au/stone-the-crows-could-corvids-be-australias-smartest-export-4346), it suggests that most urban corvids north of the Hunter are Torresian Crows, while in Sydney, Canberra and Perth it's the Australian Raven, and in Melbourne and Adelaide it's the Little Raven.

Outside of urban areas, who knows? :)

I might care about identifying them correctly if I found them more interesting, but I'm not a huge fan...

Cheers
Tim
Brisbane

Araminta
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Thanks Tim for the link, let's put this discussion to bed now, down here they are "Little Ravens", (although to my aboriginal friends, they are all Crows)

I find them extremely interesting, and I think the fact that they are highly intelligent ,does contribute to people not liking them. Just observing them , I can see them think and outsmart people. Any bird thriving in the "urban jungle", deserves to be admired. (Especially when they live at Dan Murphy's bottle shop, next to a pub.) 

M-L

linda_necia@yah...
linda_necia@yahoo.com.au's picture

I counted 19 crows on telegraph wires near my house in my inner west Sydney suburban street the other morning. This is unusual. We have lived here 14 years. This is the first winter that the crows/ravens have invaded our street. Why are they here? It is a high street on a ridge and is lined by Chinese Tallow Trees which are bare branched at the moment and covered in seeds. Is it the seeds that has attracted them? Or is something different in our area?

I don't like them and neither does our resident magpie. I saw him/her attack the crow.

If it is true that they remember the image of people who are enemies then they will remember me as I throw sticks at them from my deck when they land on the roof of our garage. I am also concerned they will attack nests of little native birds.

Reflex
Reflex's picture

Just noticed the initial dates on this threadsurprise....I was starting to think to myself, " How come I didn't see this before now?"

 Interesting subject though.

Samford Valley Qld.

Araminta
Araminta's picture

Sometimes it's nice to revisite threads. At the time, I  thought there would be a few people telling stories about different kind of birds. In any culture you will find some stories about birds, mostly used to teach children. If you know any, I'd love to hear some. Maybe stories told in the culture you originally came from?

M-L

Woko
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Hi linda. I suppose the alternative to throwing sticks at the "crows" (which are most likely Little Ravens there in Sydney) would be to spend some time observing their behaviour, which areas they like to populate most, where they like to roost & feed etc. Such observations might help you understand what conditions might favour them & what conditions might disadvantage them. So often, human behaviour results in changes in bird populations. E.g., the clearing of land for grain crops has seen a huge increase in the numbers of Little Corellas in some parts of Australia.

It might be that the removal of native vegetation for housing & their replacement by introduced species such as Chinese Tallows might have caused the demise of other bird species which might have been competing with Little Ravens & keeping their numbers in check. Again, we humans are often not too smart when it comes to alterning landscapes as we so often have little idea as to what the consequences might be.

Coincidentally, I heard today that Little Raven numbers had increased markedly in an SA location (I forget which one) & it was thought that the birds were being advantaged by open areas where they could forage for grubs & beetles.

So there are a variety of reasons why your neighbourhood is being inundated by Little Ravens. I imagine that if there was a concerted effort within in your neighbourhood to re-establish a lot of the native vegetation which originally existed there then the Little Raven numbers would be likely to decrease.

Watch & learn so that you're ready to provide your neighbours & local authorities with information that might be helpful in bringing those Little Raven numbers down.

linda_necia@yah...
linda_necia@yahoo.com.au's picture

Hi Woko, Thanks for your reply. I have been observing the Ravens more closely and I saw one excavating the end of a branch of a Jacaranda tree. I think that tree must have grubs or termites living in it. It was clever the way the Raven was bending right over and picking open the middle of the branch which had broken off with its beak.

The Chinese Tallow Trees are very mature - probably at least 20 years old. I am talking about a suburban area that has been established and built up for nearly 80 yrs very close to busy Canterbury Rd. The only difference I can think of this year is that the Electricity company cut back the branches of the Talllow Trees on the other side of the street to stop them getting near the wires. They took off about one third of the height. I wonder if the more open lower trees are better larders of insects i.e more accessible for the ravens?

I have a few large native trees in my front garden including a wattle, a casuarina and a grevillea. Then there are also a small banksia bush and something else, I forget what it is called. There are several wattle birds who visit to feed on browalia flowers.

The other gardens in the street are very manicured and tidy compared to mine. I will try talking to the neighbours re whether the Ravens annoy them too. They may agree that we need more native vegetation in all our gardens to attract more native birds. There is a huge camphor laurel tree on the corner of the street which all the birds frequent, including a koel one year.

Woko
Woko's picture

Good observation, linda. It'll be interesting to see what happens to Little Raven numbers once the Chinese Tallows start shooting & thicken up their foliage. Have you considered propping a ladder against a couple of the trees to see if there are any borer or other bug infestations that might provide  a good food supply for the Ravens? You might at least attract neighbourhood attention & thus engage a neighbour or two in conversation about Little Raven numbers.

I forgot to mention that Little Ravens will eat most things so if, heaven forbid, your neighbours are into throwing pies at each other the Little Ravens will be in like Flynn to mop up the left overs.

I've noticed that at certain times of the year in rural areas large numbers of Ravens populate paddocks, picking at the ground for a bounty of bugs & beetles. If there are lots of large lawns in your local area is it possible they're attracting Little Ravens?

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