Could it be a female Rose Robin?

38 posts / 0 new
Last post
tarkineus
tarkineus's picture
Could it be a female Rose Robin?

These 2 sole captures were at some expense, like on Thursday I took off on a 200km run to Bruny Is. south of Hobart, $16.00 for 20 litres of petrol, $12.00 ferry fare, $7.00 for one bloody aweful scallop pie for lunch. The moral is that the best bird pictures are to be found in our own backyards! So PUH-LEEZE ENJOY at my expense!


*
If I've discovered an entirely new species then it may have been all worthwhile!

Tassie

Top shots Tark and thanks mate for going to all that trouble to bring them to us they really are crisp nice clean shots.
I have not got a clue what it is, you will need the big guns for that one.
Mate "Scallop" pie........hmm even sounds foul.
Thats as bad as when I first moved to QLD and bought a pie,the woman asked if I wanted peas on it, still not used to that one.
Thanks for sharing the pics mate.

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Thanks Tassie, Sandra, the boss and my head researcher (she's been researching it for years and sees right thu me, mate) ;o) reckons it could be a female Rose Robin or imm. Red Capped Robin.
.
It was pretty foul mate, if you can find a baker that can make a goodun' then there's nothing nicer than a curried scallop pie, but the guts of this one almost made me cry Ruth! And I learnt the hard way about pie 'n peas when I was a promising young yuppie at a pie cart in Wakefield Street one night in Adelaide!

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

Raoul
Raoul's picture

No idea either Tark, nice pics . Thanks for the memories of the scallop pies,i had the same experience as well when i was living there.

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Right now Raoul, Bass Strait Scallops are in season @ $31.00 per KG from the fish punt at the docks ... they wash down well with a crisp woody white - we have been indulging ourselves just slightly! ;oD If you want a decent feed in Tasmania I'm afraid it's a case of DIY. Only time I eat out is in Melbourne.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

DenisWilson
DenisWilson's picture

Hi Tark
I am not convinced about the female Rose Robin. They normally have a pink wash on the breast, and a small typical "robin" white mark on the wing. See this image from the Canberra Ornithologists Group.
http://photogallery.canberrabirds.org.au/images/Robin_Rose2_Hansch.jpg
Your bird has neither marking.
More to the point, the beak seems too short, and too heavy to be a Rose Robin.
I suggest you need some local advice on that. Are there other small brown forest birds there? Perhaps some which do not come to the mainland?
Denis

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Thanks Denis, I have to agree, my bird doesn't have the white wing mark to ID it as a Pink Robin, but could it be a juv. that maybe hasn't fully developed all the characteristics?
I can't say whether there are other small brown forest birds here, I don't yet have the experience but I'll see if I can find out.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

Lyn
Lyn's picture

Whatever it is it's gorgeous,and lovely shots.

Incidentally - Adelaide has just re-instated it's famous "Pie Cart" by the Post Office after having shelved it for a few years - should have stayed shelved in my opinion, the Pie Floater must surely be the most hideous thing ever concocted!

Tassie

Lol I will pay that one Lyn about the pie cart. :)

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Thanks Lyn. But no thanks for reminding me of the name of that digusting gastronomic insult, the "Floater", no doubt named after something forensic was found floating belly up down the Torrens after eating one.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

GeorgeP
GeorgeP's picture

Agree with Denis that it is unlikely to be a Rose. Could be a Pink because they do not not have white(ish) wing bars and yours does not.
.
Attached is what I reckon is a Pink Robin that I shot in our neighbourhood a couple of years ago. Yours doesn't seem to have the light eye ring that is present on my bird.
.

.
These LBJ are murder to identify....

Cheers,

George
Melbourne, VIC

GeorgeP
GeorgeP's picture

Should have also added...."nice shots, sharp as..."

Cheers,

George
Melbourne, VIC

smeedingo2
smeedingo2's picture

HI Tark
Me to got no idea but nice shots.

birdie
birdie's picture

I just showed those lovely shots to my husband with the big hint that that's how i want my pics to come out. I'm starting early and aim to wear him down eventually :)

Haven't got a clue what the bird is but if you can make a LBB look great then it's OK with me.
Cheers

birdie

Sunshine Coast Queensland

DenisWilson
DenisWilson's picture

Hi Tark and GeorgeP
George's nice photo is very typical of a Pink Robin - female.
Note the tiny buff mark above the beak. It is missing in Tark's bird.
.
BiBY Bird Finder says:
"There is a small white spot above the bill, which is a buff spot on the female. Males have a diagnostic pink wash on the breast which extends right down under the belly. Females are a warm olive-brown above, with cinnamon buff underparts with a pinkish tint. Females and young birds have diagnostic buff wing patches."
.
It doesn't help with what it is, but it does tend to rule out female Pink Robin.
Hope that helps.

Denis

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

@George Thanks for the photo to compare, I think we can totally rule my bird out as being any kind of Robin. And thanks for the compliment too, mate.

@smeedingo Thanks for that.

Hi birdie, you have me scratching my head over what an LBB is? All you need is an Olympus E-system DSLR, plus a 140mm-600mm equiv lens, which is what I'm shooting with. I have an E-520 but would recommend the later E-620 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse620/
A mere 2K is all you need to weedle out of him!

@Denis, thanks again for that. I have Sandra working on the ID - we have a book of Tasmanian birds, not extensive but may provide a clue. As a matter of interest I sighted a Pink Robin many years ago when walking the Overland Track between Cradle Mtn and Lake StClair. I remember it vividly as an exquiste bird. (not exotic!)

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

al
al's picture

to me it looks like a Dusky Robin

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Does a Dusky Robin not have a white or buff wing bar? I'm determined to ID this bird no matter how long it takes. I did notice that it was feeding from a banksia tree.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

Birdgirl2009
Birdgirl2009's picture

Hi Tark - lovely bird, lovely photo and good luck in identifying it. I loved the pie conversation - the bit about 'something forensic was found floating belly up down the Torrens' gave me the best laugh I've had in a while. LBB is probably 'little brown bird'

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Hi Birdgirl, thanks for that and glad you got a laugh out of the pie conversation - sometimes life is so bizarre that without humour you and I would go nuts like the rest of them (present company excluded, of course) ;oD

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

al
al's picture

Yes they do but not as obvious as in some other robins.
Would you have another photo with a more posterolateral view of the bird?
In your photos I can see a pale edge on the outer wing and tail which makes me think that it is a dusky robin.
Cheers,
al

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Sandra, my dedicated research assistant, has just come up with the suggestion that it's maybe a Golden Whistler - Pachycephala pectoralis:- Birds of Tasmania R.H. Green.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Sorry al, I don't have a backshot of it.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

al
al's picture

Sandra may well be right!

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

al, furthermore, from the BIBY Birdfinder I think it is a juvenile. http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/finder/display.cfm?id=16, Photo: Patricia Edwards © Patricia Edwards

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

birdie
birdie's picture

Definitely Little Brown Bird Tark. Had me scratching my head when I first joined this forum too don't worry!!
:')

Sunshine Coast Queensland

raysimula
raysimula's picture

G'day Tark, Great pictures. Sorry I cant help with ID and I woudn't eat a scallop pie if you paid me, however you must tell me where you buy you'r petrol. 16 bucks for 20 litres, I havn't seen those prices for years.
Ray

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

birdie, thanks for that ... there should be a glosary of acronyms attached to evey forum that allows them - I can see the day when messages such as, "GDM, WAGS, UWSL, H4MTW CYA" will replace, "G'day mate, what a great shot, you were so lucky, heading for the mountains this weekend, see you"!
*
raysimula, Yeah, as Tassie might say, gas hasn't been that cheap since Moses was a baby! Thanks for noticing ray, I had a senior moment - just checked my receipt, petrol was from Woolworths @ 1.20 per litre, I paid 16 bucks for 13.3 litres!

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

GeorgeP
GeorgeP's picture

Hey Tark, I think she might be a whistler species. I went for a walk through our local park and spotted this female Golden Whistler which looks very similar to your girl. She seems to have the same light-coloured shoulder bar that your bird has. What do you and others reckon ?
.

.

.

.

.
Hope this helps.
.
Gheers,
.
George

Cheers,

George
Melbourne, VIC

GeorgeP
GeorgeP's picture

Oh, and my Simpson and Day field guide does not show these light shoulder bars. I also did not realise that the thread had spilled over to a second page. Your trusty assistant is probably correct. Give her a payrise :-)

Cheers,

George
Melbourne, VIC

DenisWilson
DenisWilson's picture

Hi Tark and Al and everybody
I'm with Al's suggestion of the Dusky Robin.
The Birdpedia site has a reasonable photo
http://www.birdpedia.com/au/bi.dll/bipu02?m=006_01&id505=1000000211
Text says: "Above, dark grey-brown. Wings and tail, dusky, with off-white band in base of flight feathers, and outer tail tipped white. Throat, off-white. Below, light brown, with center of belly, white. Eye, brown. Bill, black. Feet, black."
Not much to disagree with there.
I had a feeling there was an endemic (Tasmanian) Robin, but I lack the reference books to hand. Glad that Al offered a name I could search for.
I'd say it is a 95% match for Dusky Robin.
Cheers
Denis

DenisWilson
DenisWilson's picture

Alan Fletcher's "Birds in Tasmania" website (blog) has several photos on a post about Dusky Robins. These show some signs of a wing mark. But the angles of the image are different from your image. I wouldn't rule it out on that basis.
http://tassiebirds.blogspot.com/2007/07/dusky-robin-oasis.html
If you go the species list which he has for all Tasmanian Birds, there is a spectacular photo of a Dusky Robin which is a dead-set match for your bird, Tark.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5096/1846/1600/Dus.2.jpg
You really ought bookmark that website, which I have mentioned before. It really is very good and has local knowledge which this forum, sadly, cannot offer you.
The phrase, "No man is an Island" is almost denied by your presence on this forum - you almost are an "island" yourself, here.
In Tasmania, you have many endemic birds (and as with your Green Rosella, some are "exquisite" too).
Cheers
Denis

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Thanks Denis, I have taken your advice and bookmarked Alan Fletcher's website which I forgot to do when you first mentioned it. I have closely compared his Dusky robin to my bird and they are almost identical but for the beak that on mine appears shorter and stubbier for want of a better word. Did you notice my thread above in which I mentioned that Sandra's research indicates that it is maybe a Golden Whistler - Pachycephala pectoralis:- Birds of Tasmania R.H. Green and using that reference, the BIBY Birdfinder has a picture of a juvenile. http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/finder/display.cfm?id=16, Photo: Patricia Edwards © Patricia Edwards

I am very flattered that you should suggest that I am almost an island in this forum of many experts among whom I feel something akin to Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer's Apprentice in the movie "Fantasia". In the absence of his master from the den and under strict instructions to touch nothing, Mickey starts messing with his master's magic that takes on an uncontrollable life of its own - somewhat like this thread.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Georgethanks for your effort and pictures that I think has "forensically" (love that word) identified my bird as a Golden Whistler juv. It did have a most melodious whistle.
But I'm keeping my mouth shut about any payrise for my assistant ... these are tough times, remember? ;-)

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

DenisWilson
DenisWilson's picture

Hi Tark
The "no man is an island" reference was geographical.
Apart from that slight problem, you are fitting right in on this forum.
As for "Fantasia" I think you have gone some way towards creating a Tolstoy novel with the length of this post.
.
I avoided the obvious suggestion of the female Golden Whistler, as it has a track record of many problematic ID debates on this forum. I thought: "Oh No! Not another one".
.
I can tell you one trick with female Golden Whistlers. They have a small but totally diagnostic bunch of yellow feathers around the "vent". As you managed to photograph the stomach of your bird, without any sign of the yellow tuft of feathers, I do not think it is a Golden Whistler.
I did wonder, about that at first, but the small beak put me off too.
Size is the hardest of all things to judge in a photo, but a Golden Whistler is a stocky bird, and your bird seems finer.
Check out all the various female and juvenile GWs on this COG link. There are many to look at.
http://photogallery.canberrabirds.org.au/Species%20HTML/golden_whistler.html
I still favour the Dusky Robin.
Cheers
Denis

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Hi Denis, Sorry for the tardy reply. OK, I checked the CB gallery and immediately recognised John Gordon's Golden Whistler, Juvenile (Image #6) as close to mine as damn is to swearing, mate. In fact I venture to call it a perfect match. If it weren't a breach of copyright I would gladly post them here, side by side for comparison. However, by clicking the link in your previous thread and restoring both windows, it is possible to achieve just that.
.
For convenience, here's my girl again (possibly younger than John Gordon's bird.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

DenisWilson
DenisWilson's picture

Hi Tark.
.
There are things which experienced birders learn to sense, or recognise, or look for, about the manner of various species - which set the different types of birds apart.
I wish I could spend some field time with you to help you "read" the birds. Perhaps you could contact a local bird watching group or field naturalist society, to get some experienced birders to go bush with. I am sure they are there, in Tassie.
.
To me a Robin is a Robin and behaves as such, and a Whistler looks and behaves somewhat differently.
I know that it takes experience to learn these things, that's why I would love to help you with some field time. Alas it is not likely to happen, for geographical reasons.
.
Firstly, just size and weight. A Golden Whistler is a chunky bird as "small birds" go, in the Aussie bush. The Robins, especially the "red breasted" (Petroica) group, (not so much the "Yellow Robin" group) are relatively fine (light, or slight) in build. They probably weigh only half as much as the Whistler.
Then there are calls.
Golden Whistlers are quite noisy birds, even when not making their tell tale call, they have other single note calls which carry a long distance.
To be honest, I hear GWs frequently, but seldom see them, because they are birds of the forest thickets. Whereas most of the other Robin group are birds which love to sit on fences and signs, to get a good look around, to spot prey.
.
I cannot say anything about the Dusky Robin, as I have not seen it, but I suspect it would fit my description of the other Robins, in behaviour.
BiBY says:
"The Dusky Robin occurs mostly in open habitats from sea level to 1200 m, usually in dry sclerophyll forest. It favours ecotones (the edge zones) between forests and clearings. Territories tend to occupy areas with greatest shrub cover. The Dusky Robin is found in newly cleared areas, regrowth and recently burnt areas. They are occasionally recorded in wet sclerophyll forest and sometimes in coastal heathland or sedgeland or on button grass plains."
"It feeds on the ground or in trees. It typically sits on stumps or posts and darts to ground for prey, but occasionally hops along the ground or forages among foliage or in the air. In recently burnt areas, it often forages on the ground with Flame Robins and Scarlet Robins."
.
So, that more or less confirms what I was suggesting about the Dusky Robin's likely behaviour - hopping around in open country, sitting on fences, or rocks, near vegetation patches - "Edge country".
So, putting those clues together, you might well conclude that your bird was a Whistler, after all.
.
I have examined both photos, closely, by the way, and I do see the faint lines on the wing - the edges of the "primary" flight feathers as being similar. Colours not so close.
.
But, I come back to the "feel" of the bird, in the bush as being a better guide than a snapshot image. And ultimately, that has to be your decision.
Best wishes.
Cheers
Denis

tarkineus
tarkineus's picture

Thanks Denis, I greatly appreciate your comments and have read them carefully. As you say, It is regrettable that geography makes spending field time with you impracticable.
.
The bird above was shot in quite thick bush fairly remote from human settlement on Bruny Is. Now I really cannot say more about its appearance than my picture shows and to me the features match conclusively enough with John Gordon's picture with an allowance for some minor colour variation that I suspect has more to do with in-camera image processing than any actual difference.
.
However, regardless of what bird it is, the bottom line is probably a case of, "A rose by any other name ..."
.
For now I have filed the image in a provisional folder that I call "Robins & Wrens" - at least I'll be able to find it by association.

Regards, "Tark" - Olympus 4/3rds colour

 and   @birdsinbackyards
                 Subscribe to me on YouTube