I think the first is a male Scarlet Robin and the second I'm not sure - a female or immature Scarlet. Would appreciate anyone's comments. These birds were photographed south of Melbourne.
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#1 = male Flame Robin; grey back & head, small white forehead patch and extensive orange-red breast and #2 = female Scarlet Robin; but the Robin experts may disagree
Peter
I agree on #1 & #2 seems to be a female scarlet robin but where is its white forehead spot?
I'm wrong again! The first a male Flame, the second a Scarlet? The photos are not that clear, I know, but I can see a little white spot on the forehead - could it be an immature? Have I really had both species in the garden - that would be exciting.
Bridges
yes, I hummed for a bit but believe I can see a very small spot
Peter
I would agree with Peter (Pacman) on both accounts.
I think there both flame robins the hen looks to have white on the edge of its tail
You can just make out a black throat that is cut off with the red following below (photo 1), instead of the red extending right to the bill. This indicates Scarlet Robin. I may find that the white forehead isn't a reliable ID feature because, in both Scarlet and Flame Robin, the size of the white is variable. Photo 2 would be a female rather than juv. as a juvenile would have no red on the chest.
Even though the red on FR is described as firey orange, it is also quite variable and may look darker depending on the light.
Brandon (aka ihewman)
Second one is an immature male Rose Robin for me. Scarlet female would have the white forehead spot and so would a young Flame male. The breast patch on this bird is pink, not red or orange. This one also has touches of yellow on the base of the bill pointing to an immature.
Check out this young male Rose Robin:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kookr/1994961245/
Please note: this ain't my image!
Cheers, Owen.
I'm so confused!! First photo a Scarlet Robin - I can see now that the red does not extend to the bill. The second photo? Owen, it certainly compares well with the photo on flickr, and the breast patch is certainly pink. Oh well, the book may have wrong info! All the same, thank you one and all for your help. Very much appreciated.
Bridges
In my opinion, there's little doubt the first photo is a Flame Robin. To those suggesting it's a Scarlet because the red doesn't appear to go all the way up to bill, I think it's just the head angle giving a false impression. On Flame, the red breast only reaches up close to the bill in the very centre, & it only takes a slight turn of the head to give the impression that the red stops short of the bill, as in this photo. Adult male Scarlet's also have darker black upperparts.
I'm not sure about the 2nd photo, but tend to agree with Owen on Rose Robin, for the same reasons.
A diagnostic for Rose is the fact they have a graduated tail, whereas the others don't, i.e. outer tail feathers are notably shorter than the inner feathers. This feature is not clear in this photo, the end of the tail is obscured by a twig. Is there any more photos that show the tail better, usually best seen from underneath??
The first one is definitely a Flame, I am 110% on that one.
Breast is orange and extends all the way to the vent, and the back is more dark grey, instead of Black on the Scarlet. Also, Scarlet males have different shaped white marking on the wings. Also, the orange starts quite high on the throat here, the Scarlet would have black further down the throat and there would be a clear border between black and red.
Cheers, Owen.
Right, Flame it is. Many thanks. With regard the second photo, Steve I have tried at least half a dozen times to upload another photo, and even tried with d different photo. Am not over the KB. Box just comes up as a question mark. Not that it is a much better photo, but don't know what I'm doing wrong this time.
Bridges