we have a lot more endemism though, many of their families and even species are shared with Asia, Africa and North America.
In terms of species abundance many species have documented large declines in population there, i'm unsure whether population estimates for common species abundance in australia are available
The flora is lower in biodiversity in europe due to past glaciation wiping out many endemic species, many species being present are recent colonists.
My book says 750 birds can be found in Australia, 700 if you leave out the rare stragglers from other continents. Resident species 600, of which 380 occur nowhere else in the world.
Woko, You ask if every backyard had a bird bath, would it be over substitution? Well – Yes! We are after all, the driest continent on earth, oops second driest. And will it change the ecology?
As a kid growing up in Western Sydney, with my first bird book in hand (5th Edition What Bird Is That?) it was the year of 1968. I had ticked & dated all the birds I had seen in my area and also at my relatives’ places we visited every Sunday. There were never any aggressive/territorial wattlebirds around in theirs or our gardens. There are now. Maybe due to bird baths? We were all too poor to have pools. But in saying that, today many thousands of backyard pools attract ducks & drongos for a swim or just to splash around in.
Blocked downpipes and sagging gutters retain water for rosellas, pardalotes and many others, so after a hot summer day they will return around the same time with the knowledge they have retained. So removing bird’s baths won't change much.
Aggressive bird noise… Maybe you misunderstood me. I was talking about the nectar feeding birds or even flying foxes, which make just as much noise, squabbling over flowering eucalyptus blossoms. Not flocks of birds like galahs and corellas who sound like they are having a party or just yahooing, or magpie larks doing their morning antiphonal calls on the top electrical poles, whip birds do this also but in the thick scrub. Which is not what all birds do.
As an eight year old I could name the three trees that many people from their mother country and had planted and they all flowered together at the same time. My parents did not tell me they were exotic to the area - silky oak, flame tree and jacaranda, which you could see traveling in a car miles away on the side of a hill or a valley below.
But they did teach me to use my eyes and ears and admire nature and in due course I have passed this on to my children as well.
So if David is at the beginner level, as he stated, and Wollemi is learning through this conversation, I am more than happy to share my love of nature, how I see it, with them or anybody else.
As for this tree, as I said in my first post, it's a great pioneer tree and does not block out all the sunlight on the forest floor like fig trees do. Where seed can take hundreds of years to see the light of day. I have counted over three hundred native seedlings under this tree, lillipillies, cheese trees, native ginger and palms, just to name a few. I like to use common names, there’s always a little bit of history within a name and yes there are a few exotic weeds, but the natives are a hundred to one and yes the birds have spread the seeds outside of my yard, but in saying that, I hope they can find a backyard in a unkempt corner or a man made storm water catchment where they can take root and feed a few birds and in return be overgrown by fruit bearing natives that just need a chance to reclaim a site where they once were endemic to and fill the air with the friendly chatter of fruit eating birds. The few little evodia trees I planted have given me so much enjoyment. Five to ten years have passed now they are dropping all their lower branches and are now in the shadows of endemic natives with just the crown showing and soon to become the footprint of this garden.
Time passes so quickly - so don't forget to smell the paperbarks and watch how birds behave!
hi Dave, just thought I'd tell you of my experiences with the little evodia. we planted 2 of them in our yard - we live just outside Toowoomba in the Lockyer Valley. one was planted in the back yard garden which got the bulk of our recycled water discharge, and it was glorious. maybe about 4 meters high, and it probably achieved that growth in about 7-8 years. we planted the other one in the front garden, and it didn't get as much water so it was maybe only about 4ft at most. the recycled water was high in nutrients - so everything grew well in the back yard. our winters would be milder than yours in Sydney, however we do get frosts where we are and winter temps do drop below zero at night and do single digits during the day. the key to growth was the watering it received from our biocyte system. the tree flowered every year with lovely pink flowers along the trunk and brances, followed by the seed pods. we didn't get any seedlings come up that I noticed (although the garden had a heavy cover of forest mulch) - and it doesn't throw suckers so you won't have problems with neighbors ;-)
Well I suppose Toowoomba is actually a bit cooler than Sydney in winter, but with stronger sunshine intensity. But overall something similar and since yours flowered nicely I reckon I'm in with a good chance.
I've planted one and re-potted the other three of the little tube stocks, and they're all growing well but at only a moderate growth rate. I'll make sure to keep the water up to them.
We were all talking before about planting non-local Aussie natives. So I'm now going to confess my bad gardening skills - several of my (non-grafted) grevilleas died of root rot in the rather damp clay here. You see my previous gardening experience was all in Perth in sandy soil where grevilleas do fine. So some folks unleash a monster plant into the environment, but most of us just have sick or dead plants.
oh - I've killed heaps of trees in my quest for a garden - the ones other people tend to consider indestructible ;-) over time though, we improved our soil and subsequently the trees took off. we had heavy clay soil when we first bought the house many years ago, and had to spend days with a rotary hoe breaking the ground up. then we added gypsum and began piling in the organics. I used to toss in my left-over worms after fishing trips to the local dams, and they also helped to break down the clays - and they breed and become your own little worm farm. lots of mulch is also very important when your soil is poor - and chook poo! once you can break down the clay and improve the soil quality and drainage - you should start to see some improvement with the rainforest trees. our neighbor uses lots of hay for mulch, and has very good results with his garden. a 4ft x 4ft round bale costs about $40-60 depending on type and quality, which is comparably cheaper to other mulching material.
Icelebrancy i would be interested to know what is in your recycled water. Is it what they call "grey" water from shower, laundry and kitchen? Do you use special "earth friendly" soaps, detergents, etc?
We were all talking before about planting non-local Aussie natives. So I'm now going to confess my bad gardening skills - several of my (non-grafted) grevilleas died of root rot in the rather damp clay here. You see my previous gardening experience was all in Perth in sandy soil where grevilleas do fine.
I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, many of the beautiful WA Proteaceous plants are notoriously difficult to grow on the east coast, especially Sydney north with the humidity alone (plus often clay soils as you say).
They can do ok in lower-humidity regions of Vic and SA. Grafting, selective breeding and hybridisation is attempting to rectify this situation to create hardier plants which are more tolerant of humidity.
There are heaps of subtropical east coast grevillea cultivars etc. much better suited to the east coast, though it doesn't stop people trying the fancy WA species.
hi Night Parrot, we use what's known as a water treatment system, and all of our household waste goes into it - both grey and black water. it's a huge cement tank in the ground which has maybe 4 sections for the different treatment phases, it uses microbes to break everything down, and then it pumps out clean water onto the garden which is why it's a high nutrient water. we do need to be mindful of the chemicals we use for cleaning, but most of the normal products are ok - spray-n-wipe for surfaces, handi-andi for floors, toilet duck for the loo, and mild soaps and shampoos etc. we steer away from heavy bleaches and nasty tile/grout cleaners for regular cleaning, although I may use them occasionally in very small amounts if I'm having a bad shower mould day ;-) antimicrobials do have an impact, so when I was on heavy antibiotics for about a month the microbes in the tank suffered and the water quality was off. the microbes also suffer if there isn't enough waste to feed on, so we tip a cup of sugar or some yoghurt down the sink every now and then. the actual water quality discharged is far superior to the old sullage pump out - no smell, no residue, and the trees went crazy.
While I'm a long way from rainforest country I've saved a huge amount of time & effort changing soil conditions by planting indigenous species straight into unprepared soil as soon as the season breaks. No watering needed afterwards either. And the indigenous wildlife is slowly returning & helping to perpetuate the restoration of the original vegetation.
Hi darinnightowl. I can see that this species is providing the local birds with food & that's good. On the down side it's taking those birds away from interacting with indigenous plant species. E.g., pollinating their flowers, spreading their seeds. The birds might also be spreading the seeds of this introduced native plant, a process that deprives indigenous species of space & other resources. So that's not so good. In my view.
many native birds in major urban centres have adapted quite well to manmade environments (e.g. Little Wattlebirds, Rainbow Lorikeets) and have formed sedentary populations in urban areas, no longer venturing back to their original habitats and have adapted to a range of non-indigenous and exotic vegetation. If it weren't for these non-indigenous plants there would be no resident native birds in the urban areas for people to enjoy, and perhaps the disconnection from nature would be even greater still. Of course there is scope for rewilding the burbs and i'm all for encouraging the planting of indigenous plants, as then perhaps the number of native bird species in urban centres could be increased but at present it's not practicable/sustainable (not practiced on a wide-enough scale to support contiguous bird populations).
It's a big area and they still have quite a few species
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_birds
we have a lot more endemism though, many of their families and even species are shared with Asia, Africa and North America.
In terms of species abundance many species have documented large declines in population there, i'm unsure whether population estimates for common species abundance in australia are available
The flora is lower in biodiversity in europe due to past glaciation wiping out many endemic species, many species being present are recent colonists.
My book says 750 birds can be found in Australia, 700 if you leave out the rare stragglers from other continents. Resident species 600, of which 380 occur nowhere else in the world.
It is an interesting information.
Woko, You ask if every backyard had a bird bath, would it be over substitution? Well – Yes! We are after all, the driest continent on earth, oops second driest. And will it change the ecology?
As a kid growing up in Western Sydney, with my first bird book in hand (5th Edition What Bird Is That?) it was the year of 1968. I had ticked & dated all the birds I had seen in my area and also at my relatives’ places we visited every Sunday. There were never any aggressive/territorial wattlebirds around in theirs or our gardens. There are now. Maybe due to bird baths? We were all too poor to have pools. But in saying that, today many thousands of backyard pools attract ducks & drongos for a swim or just to splash around in.
Blocked downpipes and sagging gutters retain water for rosellas, pardalotes and many others, so after a hot summer day they will return around the same time with the knowledge they have retained. So removing bird’s baths won't change much.
Aggressive bird noise… Maybe you misunderstood me. I was talking about the nectar feeding birds or even flying foxes, which make just as much noise, squabbling over flowering eucalyptus blossoms. Not flocks of birds like galahs and corellas who sound like they are having a party or just yahooing, or magpie larks doing their morning antiphonal calls on the top electrical poles, whip birds do this also but in the thick scrub. Which is not what all birds do.
As an eight year old I could name the three trees that many people from their mother country and had planted and they all flowered together at the same time. My parents did not tell me they were exotic to the area - silky oak, flame tree and jacaranda, which you could see traveling in a car miles away on the side of a hill or a valley below.
But they did teach me to use my eyes and ears and admire nature and in due course I have passed this on to my children as well.
So if David is at the beginner level, as he stated, and Wollemi is learning through this conversation, I am more than happy to share my love of nature, how I see it, with them or anybody else.
As for this tree, as I said in my first post, it's a great pioneer tree and does not block out all the sunlight on the forest floor like fig trees do. Where seed can take hundreds of years to see the light of day. I have counted over three hundred native seedlings under this tree, lillipillies, cheese trees, native ginger and palms, just to name a few. I like to use common names, there’s always a little bit of history within a name and yes there are a few exotic weeds, but the natives are a hundred to one and yes the birds have spread the seeds outside of my yard, but in saying that, I hope they can find a backyard in a unkempt corner or a man made storm water catchment where they can take root and feed a few birds and in return be overgrown by fruit bearing natives that just need a chance to reclaim a site where they once were endemic to and fill the air with the friendly chatter of fruit eating birds. The few little evodia trees I planted have given me so much enjoyment. Five to ten years have passed now they are dropping all their lower branches and are now in the shadows of endemic natives with just the crown showing and soon to become the footprint of this garden.
Time passes so quickly - so don't forget to smell the paperbarks and watch how birds behave!
Night Owl
See it! Hear it!
Mid-North Coast NSW
hi Dave, just thought I'd tell you of my experiences with the little evodia. we planted 2 of them in our yard - we live just outside Toowoomba in the Lockyer Valley. one was planted in the back yard garden which got the bulk of our recycled water discharge, and it was glorious. maybe about 4 meters high, and it probably achieved that growth in about 7-8 years. we planted the other one in the front garden, and it didn't get as much water so it was maybe only about 4ft at most. the recycled water was high in nutrients - so everything grew well in the back yard. our winters would be milder than yours in Sydney, however we do get frosts where we are and winter temps do drop below zero at night and do single digits during the day. the key to growth was the watering it received from our biocyte system. the tree flowered every year with lovely pink flowers along the trunk and brances, followed by the seed pods. we didn't get any seedlings come up that I noticed (although the garden had a heavy cover of forest mulch) - and it doesn't throw suckers so you won't have problems with neighbors ;-)
cheers
Thanks Icelebrancy,
Well I suppose Toowoomba is actually a bit cooler than Sydney in winter, but with stronger sunshine intensity. But overall something similar and since yours flowered nicely I reckon I'm in with a good chance.
I've planted one and re-potted the other three of the little tube stocks, and they're all growing well but at only a moderate growth rate. I'll make sure to keep the water up to them.
We were all talking before about planting non-local Aussie natives. So I'm now going to confess my bad gardening skills - several of my (non-grafted) grevilleas died of root rot in the rather damp clay here. You see my previous gardening experience was all in Perth in sandy soil where grevilleas do fine. So some folks unleash a monster plant into the environment, but most of us just have sick or dead plants.
Regards,
Dave
hi Dave,
oh - I've killed heaps of trees in my quest for a garden - the ones other people tend to consider indestructible ;-) over time though, we improved our soil and subsequently the trees took off. we had heavy clay soil when we first bought the house many years ago, and had to spend days with a rotary hoe breaking the ground up. then we added gypsum and began piling in the organics. I used to toss in my left-over worms after fishing trips to the local dams, and they also helped to break down the clays - and they breed and become your own little worm farm. lots of mulch is also very important when your soil is poor - and chook poo! once you can break down the clay and improve the soil quality and drainage - you should start to see some improvement with the rainforest trees. our neighbor uses lots of hay for mulch, and has very good results with his garden. a 4ft x 4ft round bale costs about $40-60 depending on type and quality, which is comparably cheaper to other mulching material.
cheers,
Kathy
Icelebrancy i would be interested to know what is in your recycled water. Is it what they call "grey" water from shower, laundry and kitchen? Do you use special "earth friendly" soaps, detergents, etc?
I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, many of the beautiful WA Proteaceous plants are notoriously difficult to grow on the east coast, especially Sydney north with the humidity alone (plus often clay soils as you say).
They can do ok in lower-humidity regions of Vic and SA. Grafting, selective breeding and hybridisation is attempting to rectify this situation to create hardier plants which are more tolerant of humidity.
There are heaps of subtropical east coast grevillea cultivars etc. much better suited to the east coast, though it doesn't stop people trying the fancy WA species.
hi Night Parrot, we use what's known as a water treatment system, and all of our household waste goes into it - both grey and black water. it's a huge cement tank in the ground which has maybe 4 sections for the different treatment phases, it uses microbes to break everything down, and then it pumps out clean water onto the garden which is why it's a high nutrient water. we do need to be mindful of the chemicals we use for cleaning, but most of the normal products are ok - spray-n-wipe for surfaces, handi-andi for floors, toilet duck for the loo, and mild soaps and shampoos etc. we steer away from heavy bleaches and nasty tile/grout cleaners for regular cleaning, although I may use them occasionally in very small amounts if I'm having a bad shower mould day ;-) antimicrobials do have an impact, so when I was on heavy antibiotics for about a month the microbes in the tank suffered and the water quality was off. the microbes also suffer if there isn't enough waste to feed on, so we tip a cup of sugar or some yoghurt down the sink every now and then. the actual water quality discharged is far superior to the old sullage pump out - no smell, no residue, and the trees went crazy.
While I'm a long way from rainforest country I've saved a huge amount of time & effort changing soil conditions by planting indigenous species straight into unprepared soil as soon as the season breaks. No watering needed afterwards either. And the indigenous wildlife is slowly returning & helping to perpetuate the restoration of the original vegetation.
with the right plant all these birds will visit
See it! Hear it!
Mid-North Coast NSW
What plant species is that, darinnightowl? It's certainly has very attractive flowers.
little evodia , the same plant i posted in fruit but now its in flower . just another native plant out of place . A weed woko that i think can help .
See it! Hear it!
Mid-North Coast NSW
Are you sure? The flowers looks more like Melicope elleryana (sometimes called big evodia).
See photo of Little Evodia (Melicope rubra) at https://www.flickr.com/photos/28733455@N04/2692816030/
and Melicope elleryana at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melicope_elleryana
They are both from North Qld rainforest, and both are food for the Blue Ulysees butterfly
I've seen them both flowering in summer.
Hi darinnightowl. I can see that this species is providing the local birds with food & that's good. On the down side it's taking those birds away from interacting with indigenous plant species. E.g., pollinating their flowers, spreading their seeds. The birds might also be spreading the seeds of this introduced native plant, a process that deprives indigenous species of space & other resources. So that's not so good. In my view.
i think that's going a bit too far
many native birds in major urban centres have adapted quite well to manmade environments (e.g. Little Wattlebirds, Rainbow Lorikeets) and have formed sedentary populations in urban areas, no longer venturing back to their original habitats and have adapted to a range of non-indigenous and exotic vegetation. If it weren't for these non-indigenous plants there would be no resident native birds in the urban areas for people to enjoy, and perhaps the disconnection from nature would be even greater still. Of course there is scope for rewilding the burbs and i'm all for encouraging the planting of indigenous plants, as then perhaps the number of native bird species in urban centres could be increased but at present it's not practicable/sustainable (not practiced on a wide-enough scale to support contiguous bird populations).
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