I would like to know if anyone has a opinion on the matter. I Googled Indian Myna the other day, and was horrified to find less about them and about how to kill them. Does anyone know they are classed as being damaging? How long before they are Australians?
They were introduced into Australia Mid-1800s for insect and (ironically) pest control. They have caused damage to infrastructure and polluted waterways. They have also invaded nests of native parrots and other birds. Personally I am only against the culling the birds if it is done in a cruel irresponsible manner.
Taz
They are extremely damaging birds. They evict the native birds from their nesting hollows and eat their young and they chase away every bird for miles around. I read on one website that the biggest threat to Australian birds is Habitat Loss and the second biggest threat is Indian Mynas. Kingfishers have suffered greatly as they are to small to fight off the Mynas from their hollow.
Cheers, Owen.
Ok, I wasn't completely serious. It was a devil's adocate point of view. I don't think they should have ever introduced in the first place. I was hinting at the fact that it is not the Indian Myna's fault though. Is killing anything humane? I also think traps a cruel and poitless because what is the point of killing one, when there is many many more are hatching?
PS Sorry for the mistakes in my first post. I may have miss some topic here because I got one of those error things.
Same could be said for prickly pears, rabbits and cane toads.
People don't just kill one, they actually remove several birds in an area to euthanise at a time. Yes technically it is not the Mynas' fault, its solely the work of humans that they are here in the first place. When what we do becomes a problem we are responsible for controlling it. We can't let that problem persist. Well that's what I believe anyway. I believe traps are cruel if the animal will have to suffer relentlessly before death.
What I don't understand is Badger culling in Europe. They are native there and the reason for the culling was not backed up by scientific evidence. But that's a different story.
Taz
I haven't killed a bird in my life and don't plan to so I'll just have to put up with them. Whoever introduced them didn't use his noggin very well so maybe he should have thought about it first. They are also expaning their range very quickly and they can have several broods in one breeding season so they are extremely successful. They will also eat whatever they can get.
Cheers, Owen.
I will come back and post about these guys when I get a chance - but I will say that, on the most part, there is very little evidence that they are having the sort of impact that is claimed. I have heard the 'second biggest threat next to habitat loss' claim but no data to back it up and I think it is greatly exaggerating their impact.
We have created an ideal habtiat for them, and continue to do so. Euthanising some will have little impact - we need to create a habitat that the birds don't like.
Will expand on it a bit more in a little while (busy day today).
Husband had his eyes openened the other day at our local tip, hundreds of Indian Mynas scavenging. Interesting question 1wattle, how long does something exist in a country before it's termed "native". Obviously over the past thousands of years fauna/flora have made there own way to our shores which we acknowledge as native as we don't have the evidence to indicate otherwise. Hmmm food for thought!
Yes it is perfect for them here! If a little cold. I don't think we should just kill the lot of them though. I think we sould control they spread in another way, like... Well that is the question isn't it? How do we stop them when the norm is to plant native fauna/flora, but they will eat those as well (if it has berries of seed-boxes or something).
You've raised a perennial question, 1wattlebird. Whether we destroy an introduced bird depends on our values, perhaps . Do we place a higher value on a native species that might be affected by the introduced species or do we place the higher value on the individual introduced species?
My preference is for the former value. To that end, I destroy nests of blackbirds, European goldfinches & spotted turtle doves to discourage their breeding & this is having a positive affect in our area. Meanwhile, the habitat I've created has resulted in predation of starlings, sparrows & common pigeons by raptors & the numbers of these introduced species have dropped significantly as a result. There may also be other factors involved in their decline. E.g., the natural habitat created doesn't favour them.
While there are many Indian mynas in Australia, I wonder if this is an excuse for individual humans not humanely discouraging them if they (the humans) hold the value of protecting Australian species.
I do hope these are empty nests? I like Blackbirds, Starlings, sparrows and I don't know the Goldfinch. I do though, value the natives more than them. I would not cry if we were to drive the introduced birds from Australia. If it is done in the way that you described. I would cry if we (by the way, I mean Australians when I say we) where to let the introduced birds drive the locals out. Your way of discouraging them is great if it feeds the native Raptors!?
Late winter & spring are busy times for me as I watch where the parent blackbirds etc. are going so that I can locate their nests before breeding begins. The blackbirds in the Mt Lofty Ranges are an important factor in the near-extinction for the Bassian thrush. Both these species inhabit the same ecological niche &, unfortuanetly, the blackbird is winning over the thrush. So if I want to enhance the survival chances of the Bassian thrush in the Mt Lofty Ranges I need to discourage the blackbirds. Every little bit helps.
The Blackbird and the Bassian Thrush do the same job. Sadly they should have never met. The blackbird is fine in Europe where it is a native. Humans had to send it, and many others, to all four corners of the globe. Why was it introduced to Australia, do you know? I only ask because I watched a doco a while ago that said that some birds that were introduced to English colonies were just so English settlers didn't get home sick or something like that. I should say the doco was British, and on English colonies. I would have a guess that lots of powers got involved in this sort of thing. Hopefully the Thrush will win back the ranges.
My understanding, too, is that many of these exotic species were imported to remind the early colonists of home. Other species were foolishly imported to control pests. We know now that this can lead to horrible consequences for the native flora & fauna even causing extincitions in many cases. Sad.
In 1987 I began to create a native garden with a big pond. Over the years many species of birds have visited and have raised their young. Some examples are Eastern Spinebill's, Spotted Pardalote's, Silvereyes, Willie Wag Tails, Superb Blue Wren's and Red Wattle Birds. Indian Myna's were around and we accepted them. But by 2008 for some reason the Indian Myna's population seemed to grow more and more as the other birds vanished. It then got worse, they invaded my roof. I have been trying to stop Indian Myna's from nesting in three places. I tried everything from blocking access to hosing them to trying to scare them away and they kept coming back. In December 2010 a friend loaned me a Indian Myna trap and up to now August 2011 I have caught and euthanized 177 of these birds. It is not something that I like doing but after I have seen these birds attack our native birds in a pack of five or six, I felt that they were being outnumbered and our native birds needed some help in restoring the balance in our local community.
177! I... I am speechless. I have seen many attacks by Indian Mynas. Most of them between each other. If I ever see the natives being attacked I, either clap my hands or tap the window. The Indian Mynas know that if they attack my native friends I don't feed any one, so not to feed the Mynas. Which get fed because of Noisy Miners, Wattlebirds Magpies etc. coming for food. I understand where you are coming from, but I could not kill any bird, let alone 177. How did you kill them? If you don't mind me asking.
Hi 1wattlebird, I do not consider it as killing them however it is more a case of taking steps in restoring the balance in our local community. Once I had observed the Indian Myna's in a small group attacking other small birds and realising that so many of the native birds had vanished made it all the more easier. Carbondioxide is one of the RSPCA approved practice that we use with a large tuff garbage bag that we place the trap in. We are now up to 180 today. My neighbour up the end of our street reported seeing another flock of about ten birds around so the trap has moved again to start catching more. What was nice today when I returned home I observed a Willie Wag Tail at sunset to make himself known. It has been over two years since I have heard his call in my backyard.
Hats off to ya for being able to catch the damn things. As long as you euthanize humanely, which it appears you are doing, I cannot see anything wrong with eradicating the species from suburbia. How on Earth do you get them into the trap? I've tried the trap at work and even had licensed shooters in our warehouse who managed to shoot only four birds in six hours.
Well NepeanBirdWatcher, whatever you call it; it is killing. At 180 it is a slaughter at least, and at most... I made this thread as a can of worms kind of thing, even before the tv one came out. I shouldn't have. There are many other ways of stopping the Indian Myna's spread. Even in reducing their numbers. I don't think this (co2) is a humane one. I don't think killing them at all is humane!
Windhover. I will only say this: Shooting them? Well that is really not humane! What if these shooters miss killing them, but still hit them... Do I need to go on?
Hi Windover, we use puppyfood. The small tiny biscuits. The Indian Myna's love them. We do not touch the trap until after dark and never go anywhere near it during the day. There is water also available.
1Wattlebird, Killing in the bird world for example is watching Indian Myna's invade a nesting box that was being used by Rosella's. The Indian Myna's filled the nesting box with rubbish and nesting materials to about the halve way point and laid their own eggs on top of what we later sadly discovered were Rosella chicks. That was in 2009.
I would like to know what your suggestions are to reduce their numbers? I tried for over two years, scaring them with rubber snakes on the roof, blocking the entry points with electrical condute that I would move around from inside my roof and that worked for a while. They managed time and time again to get back in my roof in three places. I hosed them, I put gutter guard in, believe me I tried everything. What I do not understand is why their numbers have increased so much. Can anyone lend a hand here?
Do you understand that they have lice and carry diseases and they also spread privot by eating the fruits of the privot?
Many of our neighbours have stories of what birds used to be in their backyards and have given their support in taking action. Please understand that we are only following the guidelines given by the RSPCA. I follow the law in regards to euthanizing and it is also requested by some of our neighbours as part of the trapping agreement that I have with them.
Wattlebirdie
Thanks for your comment and feel free to go on if you please.
As far as I am concerned, shooting is humane as long as it's done by professionals. It's certainly as humane as it is to kill them using CO2 gas, which is a method advocated by the RSPCA. I cannot see an issue with NBW carrying out the culling as long as he sticks within the guidelines.
The shooters I hired are licensed and killed the birds, they didn't miss one (nor have they injured one), believe it or not. It was, however, not the appropriate way to control them in my warehouse. You can assume all you like, but you were not there, I was. :-)
So whether you like it or not, the fact is that the Indian Myna is a horrible, nasty introduced species that has caused more than enough havoc in the realm of Australia's Native birds.
That doesn't make any sense NepeanBirdWatcher. I am amazed by the chicks thing. I would have thought that the Indian Mynas would have eaten the chicks.
I will say that I haven't been as interested in the birdwatching as I am now. So I still have a few friends that are Indian Mynas. I don't like the idea of killing them, or more importantly, someone else killing them. I currently have three to four couples that I know the best. One of them, a female, has lost sight in one eye. I can tell who they are from looking at their faces, around their eyes. So I can feed only my friends. So from my point of view I would rather let the ones that are here live out the days.
I do, on the other hand, have ideas on how to get rid of them, my ideas only work if eveyone does something: People have to stop feeding them, I have mostly stopped myself; Rubbish bins (in parks or the domestic ones you put out on the street) have to be designed to stop them from getting at the waste; Cafes have to keep mess from getting around the outside tables; Foodcourts inside shopping centres have to do the same. This will hopefuly reduce their numbers because they live off our rubbish in the city. Once that is done (if it works), people can't litter or that could be food. People also could feed the natives to increase their numbers. This would have to be done with seeds that the Mynas hate, but natives love. There must be a native bird that did the Mynas role, so that could be fed. This is not my best idea, but the Indian Mynas hate cats. ('Joke add': Buy a cat to get rid of the Indian Myna.) I will have to think for other ideas and will post them here. It has to be said that these are my thoughts on the matter, not probably shared by BIB. It could also be said that most of this will probable send them to the countryside or have no affect. These ideas would cost lots of money and years to happen if anything at all happens. Killing is always cheap. All life is priceless!
Ahh, one last idea: pull out all introduced plants that Indian Mynas love to eat the fruit of. Now that one is going to get me in trouble! :)
Windhover, No comment!
Well said Wattlebirdie. Feed the natives so we can upset the ecological balance even more. If you google Psittacine circovirus or beak and feather disease you will realize how naive your suggestion really is. Feeding a native will NOT promote anything except spread of disease and there are more than seedeaters among the Australian avifauna (birdlife). I bet you would even try to feed lorikeets bird seed. Planting the right plants around your home on the other hand will promote the return of native species. But those nasty mynas will still be there and compete with natives for space, including hollows for breeding. Hope you have a long, lasting relationship with your mynas. Enough said from me.
Sigh, it was a example!! We brought the Mynas here so we have to do something about them. This can include planting native plants or could include feeding the native birds. Though that Beak and feather disease is nasty looking. On the other hand I have been feeding birds for a while now and have never seen anything like that. My feathered friends are very healthy, that is the problem! Do I have to say that these are just my thoughts on the matter? I did know about the disease, but didn't know that feeding promoted it. Can anyone tell me why? I could say more, but I will end with this saying:
"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".
The problem with feeding birds is that you are really not doing them a favor. You are encouraging birds from your local area, as well as those passing through, to take advantage of a free feed. For example, Rainbow Lorikeets can travel long distances daily from their roosts to feed. If several different flocks eat at your (or anyone's) feeding station, they will eventually spread diseases, because they mix with other flocks. It's that simple unfortunately. It's nice to think that we do the nice, environmentally responsible thing by feeding, but at the end of the day the birds can really find their own food and live a happy life without our interference.
I should NOT interfere, but you know me Windhover, I can't sit on the sideline for long.But you are doing a great job , explainig, why ,under no circumstances birds should be fed! Thanks for trying, and sticking your neck out!! (normally my job, and I have done often than I would like to remember. People just don't get it!!!)Thanks , M-L
M-L
I do get it!! But don't agree. Besides we have already interfered, so I help where I can. I don't feed parrots, because they don't come, anyway. Not to mention, planting native flora will do the same. So just to get this right, I should drive away all the birds in my garden, just to be on the safe side...
Well Wattlebird, no two people may agree. I think you should feed whatever bird you want. Feed them well and stand tall and proud that you make a difference to pests. :-)
1wattlebird, I'm interested in your motive for feeding seed to birds. Does it have anything to do with you calling the birds which come to your place your "friends"?
I've wondered for some time whose interests are served by feeding birds seed or bread or whatever. Perhaps sometimes we get a thrill, perhaps even a feeling of power & control, from watching birds come to us without any actual benefit for the birds.
This thread reminds me of a recent conversation with a friend who told me about a guy who considers himself a conservationist because he has a feed table for the lorikeets, rosellas & galahs. I would have thought this was quite anti conservation as the most appropriate way to conserve is to remove threats & provide natural habitat, not make birds dependent on unnatural feeding without any other resources such as nesting spots to promote their survival.
[q]...the most appropriate way to conserve is to remove threats & provide natural habitat, not make birds dependent on unnatural feeding without any other resources such as nesting spots to promote their survival.[/q]
I am embarrassed to admit that even though I was planting and providing habitat and food plants, I also provided seed in the past before I realised the harm I was doing. There is no doubt it was for my benefit as there was no effort on my behalf other than providing the seed.
As I had to leave my property to look after an ill parent, I still wonder how many birds suffered and probably died while I was away once that food source was removed, not only because it was an inadequate diet but also if any bird bred more often due to that extra source there would have been insufficient food available to maintain that population.
Please 1Wattlebird, reconsider your stance in this matter for the sake of your bird friends - like me previously, you are doing no bird a favour by your actions.
Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."
The biggest threat to parrots is the infection by Psittacine circoviral desease, (beak and feather desease), quickly transmitted at feeding stations. I would give a link to read how it is spread, and how it effects the birds, but there is a lot of information to find on the net.(just put in the name of the desease) Please read about it! We can talk all we want,Best to read, what the "experts" say!!M-L
M-L
I will try to cover all questions/comments.
I will start by saying that I have no feeding station, obviously I should have said this earlier. I don't believe that the birds should have a food source available all the time. The only birds that stay and hope for food all the time are the Indian Mynahs. I have cut down on feeding them when other "friends" started to not come so much. Don't get me wrong; this was more about the Mynahs displacing other birds than my enjoyment.
I do feed other birds like:
Noisy Miners: which hand feed by flying up to my hand. Before you say want you want to; I didn't start this, they did. I was hand feeding them on the window sill, but one flew up to my hand for the food before I was ready when I was standing up. Not to go into too much detail, but they have been displaced by a road that has been punched though their park land, that is why I feed them. Not to say that the Noisy Miners need it all the time, the moment there is fine weather, they are off.
Wattlebirds: A Wattlebird comes to my garden for food on a non-regular basis. Currently the bird (not my profile pic) has a chick, in the middle of winter! I have not seen the bird for some days, if not a week. This is not a dependent bird. The Wattlebird in my profile pic is not coming currently because of an on-going fight between her and the Noisy Miners. This Wattlebird did come back a week or two ago, and is in good health, even without my feeding.
Magpies: More Magpies have come to my garden that Noisy Miners. The Magpie I know the best is the "King" of the area. He comes and I do feed him. He is not dependent, he has been known to not come for over six months. When he comes I get the feeling that he really wants meat from me. I will not give him that, ever. So he comes in social visits. You lot won't believe me, but he does! The last time he came, he ate some bread, and stood on the decking and sun-bathed in front of me. My neck gave out after 10 minutes of sitting and looking at him. So I got up, and before I could leave he ate another piece of bread I left for him, looked at me, and went. I feel like a servant in front of him.
"Friends" explained: I call them friends, because they are! I know, I know, but listen. Each of the birds that come to my garden, has a different personality. I got more interested in birds because of this. Not the other way around. Some, like the "King" Magpie, come because of this, I think. This you may not believe, but you are not here to see this fact. I can't really scare the Noisy Miners because of this. If I get angry with them for, say, attacking a Wattlebird, they will argue with me. So I yell at them, and they yell back. I have been with-in a metre of one yelling at it once, my yelling was getting nowhere fast. Its yelling got it food. I love this, it is so cool. Once with a Magpie, not the "King", I had to think that, this bird is free. He is not a pet. Because he was so bold. He even came closer to me when a cat came into the garden. He left in the end, like most of them. I have no problem with this. I even talk to my friends like they are people. They look and listen, particularly the Magpies.
Feeding explained: I feed them: to help them; to make me happy. In that order. I am a slave to them. Particularly the Indian Mynahs, though this is ending the Mynahs. I have never, ever thought about power or dominance when feeding birds. I am humbled when I feed birds by hand. Not power crazed.
1wattlebird, the idea that the noisy miner is responsible for you hand feeding it doesn't sit well with me at all. And I think you might be attributing to birds a lot of human characteristics that they probably don't possess.
I guess the ideal situation is where we can have our own needs (wonderment, for example)met while the needs of the birds are met at the same time. Feeding birds seed isn't, in my opinion, meeting the birds' needs. Being a slave to them is hardly meeting their needs either. Perhaps a healthy mutual respect might be the go. I'd suggest that the birds' needs are best met by their natural habitat as you imply when you mentioned a road being punched through their parkland.
Ok. I said you would not believe me, or understand. And you don't. I am not surprised. I didn't say that the Noisy Miners started the hand feeding thing, just flying up to take the food. There are about six to twelve Noisy Miners that come to my yard. I started hand feeding them, I admit that this was for my benifit, but they don't have a problem with it. I say this because; if they don't come to my hand, I toss the food to them. One was very hungry one day and took it on the wing. Now most of them don't like hand feeding on the decking, but most like flying up to my hand. I say this, but they have started landing on the gutter above my decking, and fly out to take the food when I throw it. They are great at catching.
I knew. I could have put money on the fact that one of you was going to say: "you are giving them human qualities". I am not, I am interpriting these qualities as a human, but they have them. I think that you should widen your thoughts when studying birds. I have seen it, and feel that they are not seen as intelligent. They are! This is why I have a problem with killing them, any birds, including Mynahs. Indian Mynahs are very clever indeed.
I forgot to cover this: I do not feed them seed!! I have feed birds seed in the past. But this was only because I was looking after a tired Homing Pigeon. And was recommended but an expert to feed the bird seed.
I feed my friends bread, oats and water. Like a prison! This is not enough to live on. This means that they look for their own food. I just make sure that they can!
What? What are you on about with the road and parkland Woko? It is gone! Of what was there, 20 per cent, if that, is left! And, I wasn't going to say this, but it is a motorway that has been put though. So the area is ruined! They can't go back there. There is more parkland nearby. But nothing like what the Noisy Miners had. Or any other poor animals that called that 'forest' home. Distruction, Noise, waste when will us humans learn...
I have to say that you are taking me too literally. The slave thing was a joke. You lot are just jumping on any little error in my posts to attack me and my views. I have never once said that people have to feed birds. I said they could. I am happy to have a discussion on the matter here. Not a arguement. That is what this thread is going to turn into. You all have a problem with me feeding my feathered friends. I have no problem with you not feeding the birds that visit your garden.
OK guys lets consider the discussion on feeding closed - it has strayed away from the original topic anyway. Happy for the myna discussion to continue.
Ahh Holly. I was waiting for you to get involved. Just before we tear each other to bits! We could move the feeding part of this to 'Feeding?' which I made in General. Or is that what you mean to end? :)
All feeding discussion I mean :)