This is a most instructive video clip & well worth seeing by anyone who even remotely considers her/himself an Earth protector. It's also excellent viewing for all those who have trouble seeing the connection between a healthy environment & a healthy economy.
Totally fascinating. But what about the dingo? Mainland Australia has but very few predators anyway. I think, and this is just my opinion, that in North America there are already many large predators but in Australia the main problem grazer is the kangaroo. A Tasmanian Devil would have trouble taking down a "kangaroo" of any medium size, in my opinion. Its simply too small. But what do I know? I'm not a Tasmanian Devil! Large animals like deer need large predators. But I do agree that reintroducing the Tasmanian Devil to the mainland is a good idea, but only if that species has recovered from the facial cancer that was killing off the populations of them in Tasmania. I have read there are some Tasmanian Devils that seem unaffected by the facial cancer so those ones should be introduced to the mainland, just to give their entire species a fighting chance of survival.
What the rest of the world has in abundance Australia lacks (large predator wise). So we need diversity in predators large and small.
Here's a question I've been pondering over for a long time for you folks to see if you can get your head around:
What if our feral cats grew as large as Leopards eventually? How do you think this would affect our wildlife with basically no other large predators except for above the dingo fence?
P.S. I'm actually a little bit suspicious about "theguardian" website. I've heard it prints inaccurate news reports and sometimes makes news up.
I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)
Myself and 4 others spoted a feral cat the size of a large male cattle dog. It was on the western fringe of central Simpson desert. So I think it is possible. Most feral cats I have seen are normal cat male and femal size, and the odd one the size of a beagle. But if they evolved to Loepard size as standard than we have a very very big problem. It's big enough with the size they are now. They are just so cautious, cunning, and flexible the buggers can do just about anything.
I know little about the Tassie Tiger, but it existed with devils so there must have been a balance in there somewhere. Good point on deer, perhaps pigs also fit in there. I'd imaging dingo's, devils, or even tigers hunt younglings or juveniles more than adults. They won't be a complet answer, but would manage numbers I'd say. The farmers won't like any of it. They kill dogs now, more feral than native I beleive but who's distinguishing. So devils would be next on the list if introduced back.
Hyperbirds, I think the idea is that the Tasmanian Devils would feast on cats & foxes, not Kangaroos. I've recently read several items about Dingos being reintroduced to certain areas in order to promote naive animal populations but farmers would, of course, fight tooth & nail to stop this from happening. Instead of enclosures to protect our native animals perhaps we need enclosures for livestock. Expensive, yes, but who counts the cents when we wage war on humans?
The thought of cats growing to the size of leopards is interesting. Unless a concerted effort is made to eradicate cats I can see that happening as evolution takes its course. Well spotted!
I haven't heard that the reputation of The Guardian has been questioned. I prefer it to the Murdoch Marauder as a source of accuracy (especially on climate change) although that might be because The Guardian reflects somewhat my world view. We do tend to read the stuff that we agree with!
I am often almost ashamed to say that I work in the media ,it all revolves around ratings and the old motto "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "still applies in a lot of cases , "bad news sells" in print or electronic media, and if a politician so much as farts or snezzes it will be the headline or lead story, and things that don't rate like the environment get pushed to page 13 or last story after the weather .
Have you ever noticed that when a issues unpopular with the goverment or that don't rate well like the environment start to get a bit of press there's a cabnet leak a crises or they scream boat people terroisim or road funding to pull the the attention back onto what they want to talk about, do you think this is just timing or coincidence don't be fooled its all well planed propagander and the media is a willing accomplice.
Cats won't evolve to be leopards, that doesn't even make sense. cats are cats, why would they evolve to be leopards? Most of the prey cats take is small, and the Australian environment is very tough. The old chestnut about giant cats has been around for a long time and has never been proven, it's just idle boasting.
Sparrow when I first sore Yes Minister as a kid I started to become concerend, when I watched the series Frontline with Rob Sitch as a teen I lost faith. I rarely watch, listen, or read news. Prefering to be ingnorant and happy, instead of depressed and lied too. I accept I am part of the problem but all I ever wanted was the truth, I can work from there. I'm in the building industry, so I can understand your guilt, we waste and cater for egos mostly. Plenty of Jones to make the world go round so it seems, especially with buiders. So I now work with the wife ethos, if everyone just looked after their own family and back yard, the place would be a lot better.
The games the people with the big cash play to fulfil their greed, power, and ego's rarely have myself going wow. But it seems it's the cycle humans have been locked into since I don't know when. So I kill what ferral stuff I come accross, plant my trees, and play with the kids. That's about all I do.
Greg, I didn't read jason as saying cats would become leopards. Rather that they might evolve to leopard size. And as far as size is concerned I guess it depends on what people mean by "giant". I've certainly seen cats the size of small dogs. The idea of introducing the Tasmanian Devil to its previous range so that it becomes a top predator of cats has appeal to me, that's for sure.
I remember seeing a photo of a cat shot near St Arnaud W/Vic in the early 70s the shooter around 6 foot tall was holding it by the tail with his arm almost straight out from his shoulder and its nose was touching the ground, the cat was tabby with white underneath and was shot using a spotlight after a number of lambs went missing .
I have shot and trapped quite a few most have been on the scrawny side but a few have been a lot bigger than your average pet cat I think it depends on what and how much they eat.
GregL.....please read comment #5 again. I'm not angry. I was just asking a hyperthetical question. The reason I asked that question about feral cats is because here in Tenterfield I have seen 2 feral cats that looked like minature sized leopards. I knew they were feral cats though. From head to tip of their tails they both would've been around 5 feet in length. They both had shorter legs than domestic cats, tails as long as their bodies, and the last one I saw ran straight up a mature gum tree in 3 seconds. When it ran straight down the gum tree it sped off at lightning speed, out running a German Shephard dog. It was faster than the dog actually. This actually makes me wonder, going of what I've seen of just 2 individual feral cats, if a Tasmanian Devil could even catch a larger feral cat.
Woko, I have read that Tasmanian Devils do hunt and kill meduim sized wallabies. I know a kangaroo would be too large for it to hunt. I was just thinking if a kangaroo used to have predators that would hunt and kill them that weren't humans. Or is the kangaroo at the top of the food chain?
I have seen a Quoll that a friend bought home. It'd been previously hit by a car (not by the friend). It was a small animal. Quolls are predators, right? From everything I've read about Australian predator animals they all seem to be on the small size. I really don't know enough about our animal predators and only know a little bit about the dingo.
I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)
The Complete Book of Australian Mammals talks about the Tasmanian Devil being "primarily a carrion eater whichever has difficulty killing a rat and is itself easily killed by a dog." It will eat " any material of animal origin, ranging from ...grubs to mammals larger than itself". It is " particularly attracted by carrion". They take penned poultry & youngsters will " scramble on bushes to take native birds on roost". The book makes no mention of Tasmanian Devils killing small wallabies but I would imagine young wallabies might be tucker for them. Nor does it refer to Devils taking cats.
Does anyone know of references to Devils taking cats?
How devilishly interesting, zosterops. This could be a great way to kill two feral birds with one stone. Well worth trialing, I would think.
After all the debate we have on here regarding native plants being planted where indigenous plants should, I'm in two minds.
But this short vodeo perhaps puts it in perspective if Tassie Devels were once main land dwellers.
How Wolves Change Rivers http://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
This is a most instructive video clip & well worth seeing by anyone who even remotely considers her/himself an Earth protector. It's also excellent viewing for all those who have trouble seeing the connection between a healthy environment & a healthy economy.
Totally fascinating. But what about the dingo? Mainland Australia has but very few predators anyway. I think, and this is just my opinion, that in North America there are already many large predators but in Australia the main problem grazer is the kangaroo. A Tasmanian Devil would have trouble taking down a "kangaroo" of any medium size, in my opinion. Its simply too small. But what do I know? I'm not a Tasmanian Devil! Large animals like deer need large predators. But I do agree that reintroducing the Tasmanian Devil to the mainland is a good idea, but only if that species has recovered from the facial cancer that was killing off the populations of them in Tasmania. I have read there are some Tasmanian Devils that seem unaffected by the facial cancer so those ones should be introduced to the mainland, just to give their entire species a fighting chance of survival.
Oh, and here's another link in reference to this post - on the same website: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/23/tasmanian-devils-release-onto-mainland
What the rest of the world has in abundance Australia lacks (large predator wise). So we need diversity in predators large and small.
Here's a question I've been pondering over for a long time for you folks to see if you can get your head around:
What if our feral cats grew as large as Leopards eventually? How do you think this would affect our wildlife with basically no other large predators except for above the dingo fence?
P.S. I'm actually a little bit suspicious about "theguardian" website. I've heard it prints inaccurate news reports and sometimes makes news up.
I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)
Myself and 4 others spoted a feral cat the size of a large male cattle dog. It was on the western fringe of central Simpson desert. So I think it is possible. Most feral cats I have seen are normal cat male and femal size, and the odd one the size of a beagle. But if they evolved to Loepard size as standard than we have a very very big problem. It's big enough with the size they are now. They are just so cautious, cunning, and flexible the buggers can do just about anything.
I know little about the Tassie Tiger, but it existed with devils so there must have been a balance in there somewhere. Good point on deer, perhaps pigs also fit in there. I'd imaging dingo's, devils, or even tigers hunt younglings or juveniles more than adults. They won't be a complet answer, but would manage numbers I'd say. The farmers won't like any of it. They kill dogs now, more feral than native I beleive but who's distinguishing. So devils would be next on the list if introduced back.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
Hyperbirds, I think the idea is that the Tasmanian Devils would feast on cats & foxes, not Kangaroos. I've recently read several items about Dingos being reintroduced to certain areas in order to promote naive animal populations but farmers would, of course, fight tooth & nail to stop this from happening. Instead of enclosures to protect our native animals perhaps we need enclosures for livestock. Expensive, yes, but who counts the cents when we wage war on humans?
The thought of cats growing to the size of leopards is interesting. Unless a concerted effort is made to eradicate cats I can see that happening as evolution takes its course. Well spotted!
I haven't heard that the reputation of The Guardian has been questioned. I prefer it to the Murdoch Marauder as a source of accuracy (especially on climate change) although that might be because The Guardian reflects somewhat my world view. We do tend to read the stuff that we agree with!
I am often almost ashamed to say that I work in the media ,it all revolves around ratings and the old motto "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "still applies in a lot of cases , "bad news sells" in print or electronic media, and if a politician so much as farts or snezzes it will be the headline or lead story, and things that don't rate like the environment get pushed to page 13 or last story after the weather .
Have you ever noticed that when a issues unpopular with the goverment or that don't rate well like the environment start to get a bit of press there's a cabnet leak a crises or they scream boat people terroisim or road funding to pull the the attention back onto what they want to talk about, do you think this is just timing or coincidence don't be fooled its all well planed propagander and the media is a willing accomplice.
Cats won't evolve to be leopards, that doesn't even make sense. cats are cats, why would they evolve to be leopards? Most of the prey cats take is small, and the Australian environment is very tough. The old chestnut about giant cats has been around for a long time and has never been proven, it's just idle boasting.
Gee Greg...welcomed to the dinner paty anytime.
Sparrow when I first sore Yes Minister as a kid I started to become concerend, when I watched the series Frontline with Rob Sitch as a teen I lost faith. I rarely watch, listen, or read news. Prefering to be ingnorant and happy, instead of depressed and lied too. I accept I am part of the problem but all I ever wanted was the truth, I can work from there. I'm in the building industry, so I can understand your guilt, we waste and cater for egos mostly. Plenty of Jones to make the world go round so it seems, especially with buiders. So I now work with the wife ethos, if everyone just looked after their own family and back yard, the place would be a lot better.
The games the people with the big cash play to fulfil their greed, power, and ego's rarely have myself going wow. But it seems it's the cycle humans have been locked into since I don't know when. So I kill what ferral stuff I come accross, plant my trees, and play with the kids. That's about all I do.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
Greg, I didn't read jason as saying cats would become leopards. Rather that they might evolve to leopard size. And as far as size is concerned I guess it depends on what people mean by "giant". I've certainly seen cats the size of small dogs. The idea of introducing the Tasmanian Devil to its previous range so that it becomes a top predator of cats has appeal to me, that's for sure.
a great concept
and the Devil Ark has been set up in NSW - http://www.devilark.com.au/home
Peter
I remember seeing a photo of a cat shot near St Arnaud W/Vic in the early 70s the shooter around 6 foot tall was holding it by the tail with his arm almost straight out from his shoulder and its nose was touching the ground, the cat was tabby with white underneath and was shot using a spotlight after a number of lambs went missing .
I have shot and trapped quite a few most have been on the scrawny side but a few have been a lot bigger than your average pet cat I think it depends on what and how much they eat.
GregL.....please read comment #5 again. I'm not angry. I was just asking a hyperthetical question. The reason I asked that question about feral cats is because here in Tenterfield I have seen 2 feral cats that looked like minature sized leopards. I knew they were feral cats though. From head to tip of their tails they both would've been around 5 feet in length. They both had shorter legs than domestic cats, tails as long as their bodies, and the last one I saw ran straight up a mature gum tree in 3 seconds. When it ran straight down the gum tree it sped off at lightning speed, out running a German Shephard dog. It was faster than the dog actually. This actually makes me wonder, going of what I've seen of just 2 individual feral cats, if a Tasmanian Devil could even catch a larger feral cat.
Woko, I have read that Tasmanian Devils do hunt and kill meduim sized wallabies. I know a kangaroo would be too large for it to hunt. I was just thinking if a kangaroo used to have predators that would hunt and kill them that weren't humans. Or is the kangaroo at the top of the food chain?
I have seen a Quoll that a friend bought home. It'd been previously hit by a car (not by the friend). It was a small animal. Quolls are predators, right? From everything I've read about Australian predator animals they all seem to be on the small size. I really don't know enough about our animal predators and only know a little bit about the dingo.
I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)
The Complete Book of Australian Mammals talks about the Tasmanian Devil being "primarily a carrion eater whichever has difficulty killing a rat and is itself easily killed by a dog." It will eat " any material of animal origin, ranging from ...grubs to mammals larger than itself". It is " particularly attracted by carrion". They take penned poultry & youngsters will " scramble on bushes to take native birds on roost". The book makes no mention of Tasmanian Devils killing small wallabies but I would imagine young wallabies might be tucker for them. Nor does it refer to Devils taking cats.
Does anyone know of references to Devils taking cats?